Why is racism creeping into British football again?

[Seathestars]

Brexit probably hasn't helped. It feels like that, combined with Trumps win in America, made racists feel empowered that they could be more open about their beliefs because there were two big right wing victories almost back to back

This doesn't mean that if you voted for Brexit then you're a racist of course, because that's a ludicrous notion that only does more harm than good, but most racists probably did vote for Brexit and will have seen the Brexit victory as a victory for their beliefs and life style. Hate crime numbers went up following Brexit for instance, which suggests racist people felt like they had more of a license to be racist in public

There'll be other reasons as well though. For instance, footballers being so wealthy and seemingly so detached from the life of the average supporter has led to a much frostier relationship between footballer and fan, which makes it much more common for supporters to resent players and indulge in poor behaviour as a result of that resentment

Right wing victories?

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Right wing victories?

Good point

Changed the wording to "anti-migration"

 

[Harryflashman]

Some Morons, who have drank copious amounts of alcohol pre-match, continue to attend games.

Every club, including Everton, have them.

I remember the 1970's, so today is nowhere as bad, believe me.

Not to be complacent, but let's put current 'incidents' into perspective.

I remember them as well , more the 80’s for me , and think you’re right but I honestly didn’t think we’d see banana skins thrown in 2018 and loads of other stuff as well . I really thought we’d left plenty of things behind but it does seem a lot of stuff is coming back into fashion again , which isn’t good .

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

I know we’ve had this discussion before mate and I know he’s a spurs fan but the bloke in question was literally found guilty. The people desperate to find it racist include the magistrate who convicted him , the very person whose job it is to decide guilt rather than collect and present evidence without judgement which is the police’s job. For the avoidance of any confusion this is what was said at the conclusion of the case

Magistrate Mervyn Mandell said: "We find it was a targeted gesture to throw a banana skin after a goal was scored by a black player. "We have in the circumstances found the racial element was there."

Football reflects society but where it differs is the tribal defence of our own. In Uruguay it’s a term of affection, John terry was obvious quoting he’s got black mates , The bloke doing the monkey gesture might be looking for his keys and every other incident ever. I’m not saying Everton fans are innocent either I’ve read here similar comments but if you allow a tribal football loyalty to lead you to excuse obviously racist actions You’re hardly helping.

I find it hard for someone to decide there is a “racial element” beyond a reasonable doubt, unless they know what was going through the person”s mind when they carried out the act.

Also the whole “hate crime” thing is ridiculous. How is it worse to smash someone’s teeth out due to their color, than doing it just because you do not like them for some reason. It makes no sense.

 

[Harryflashman]

I find it hard for someone to decide there is a “racial element” beyond a reasonable doubt, unless they know what was going through the person”s mind when they carried out the act.

Also the whole “hate crime” thing is ridiculous. How is it worse to smash someone’s teeth out due to their color, than doing it just because you do not like them for some reason. It makes no sense.

Well it’s two different arguments . To deal with your first do you have similar issues in law with gbh , arson or murder ? All of which require intent as part of the required points to prove . Intent has been an integral part of English law for just about as long as it’s been about seems mad people think it’s now something that’s tough to measure or prove .

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Well it’s two different arguments . To deal with your first do you have similar issues in law with gbh , arson or murder ? All of which require intent as part of the required points to prove . Intent has been an integral part of English law for just about as long as it’s been about seems mad people think it’s now something that’s tough to measure or prove .

Yeah but it is easy to prove someone had intent to break and enter if they are caught with lockpicks while on private property. To prove racist intent seems much more difficult to define, as you need to know what was in someone’s mind.

 

[Harryflashman]

Yeah but it is easy to prove someone had intent to break and enter if they are caught with lockpicks while on private property. To prove racist intent seems much more difficult to define, as you need to know what was in someone’s mind.

Like with loads of other offences , that's intent .orhers will know better but I don’t know of an offence of intent to break and enter you can attempt it I’d think or have stuff to break in but I think there something different

.intent relies on what’s in somebody’s mind whether reckless or otherwise that’s the whole point of intent . Every so often a case happens and people seem to think it’s a one off as I’ve said proving intent is a huge part of English law . As you say proving what’s in somebody’s mind is exactly part of that otherwise people can always say it was a coincidence, a mistake or they didn’t mean it and walk away . As yet the legal system seems to have coped with it just like in this case where the person listening to the evidence considered it had a racial element . As I’ve said before Ultimately an opposition fan threw a banana skin at a black player , I don’t think you’d have to be rumpole of the Bailey to make that connection .

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Like with loads of other offences , that's intent .orhers will know better but I don’t know of an offence of intent to break and enter you can attempt it I’d think or have stuff to break in but I think there something different

.intent relies on what’s in somebody’s mind whether reckless or otherwise that’s the whole point of intent . Every so often a case happens and people seem to think it’s a one off as I’ve said proving intent is a huge part of English law . As you say proving what’s in somebody’s mind is exactly part of that otherwise people can always say it was a coincidence, a mistake or they didn’t mean it and walk away . As yet the legal system seems to have coped with it just like in this case where the person listening to the evidence considered it had a racial element . As I’ve said before Ultimately an opposition fan threw a banana skin at a black player , I don’t think you’d have to be rumpole of the Bailey to make that connection .

True, but that depends on two factors. Is the person racist, and did they have knowledge of what they were doing. If a non-racist has just ate a banana they may throw it at someone without racist intent. Racism seems to have declined to a large extent, and younger people in particular may not make that connection.

 

[dannyboy]

You´d be deluded to think racism has ever gone away. Within society there are some racists who are feeling pretty emboldened right now. We have a media that actively stokes up hatred against immigrants and displays outright Islamophobia; they do so without any consequences.

The amount of posts with racist connotations I see being shared on social media also makes for uncomfortable viewing. I think it´s mostly due to a lack of education and well targeted divide and rule tactics.

Football just reflects where society is right now.

 

[Harryflashman]

True, but that depends on two factors. Is the person racist, and did they have knowledge of what they were doing. If a non-racist has just ate a banana they may throw it at someone without racist intent. Racism seems to have declined to a large extent, and younger people in particular may not make that connection.

I’m 50 I think you can talk it about declining and up until recently it’s been less overt , things that were openly chanted at footy aren’t any more that’s true but last couple of years things are getting worse and I think things like the banana skin and sterling abuse are illustrative of that .

 

[Harryflashman]

You´d be deluded to think racism has ever gone away. Within society there are some racists who are feeling pretty emboldened right now. We have a media that actively stokes up hatred against immigrants and displays outright Islamophobia; they do so without any consequences.

The amount of posts with racist connotations I see being shared on social media also makes for uncomfortable viewing. I think it´s mostly due to a lack of education and well targeted divide and rule tactics.

Football just reflects where society is right now.

Exactly I think it’s been less overt and just as you say they’re feeling emboldened now .

 

[dannyboy]

Exactly I think it’s been less overt and just as you say they’re feeling emboldened now .

There´s definitely a narrative of white British people being persecuted in their own country which has gained a lot of traction over recent years. The Mail, The Express and even right wing broadsheets have all played their part in that.

It´s a shame because people have got every right to be angry, they just aim their anger in the wrong directions.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Just after Goncalves and Raheem Sterling were racially abused, now Kamara has been too. Is this a societal problem? Has Brexit given a springboard for racists to be louder?

Have you ever been the victim of wacism?