What would be seen as a successful season?

[MikeH72]

They're mighty big claims for the supporter of a club with an owner who is barely a billionaire at it's helm in a league where billionaires are the norm.

Resources are finite. We'll see a few more big names out the door in the next couple of seasons and that will largely fund the incomings.

And in any case, are you saying that the £18M overspend identified couldn't be used to bring in the right personnel? On what basis? Wasn't Gueye £7M? Dont we have Walsh who is here to go out and bring in talent ready for the first team for reasonable prices?

How does that one work mate? Sorry I'm struggling with that one please explain ta fam x

 

[Barnfred 55]

The first bit in bold contradicts the second bit in bold.

Which is it: 7th is acceptable/unacceptable nest season?

No contradiction there at all Dave.

I already said that most would be expecting us to challenge, if not qualify, for a champions league place in year 2. So to finish 7th again would not be acceptable. The vast majority of us will want to see an improvement on this year. In fact some will be demanding it.

But that doesn't mean that it won't be a very difficult challenge for us, and if we do qualify for UCL, then hats off to Koeman, he'd probably get manager of the year.

Nowhere in that second paragraph do I say that 7th place is acceptable. What I am saying is that your original BS comments are, in fact BS.

 

[The binman chronicles]

When we got 5th a few seasons back: Liverpool, United, City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs were all better resourced than we were. Even under the last few seasons under Moyes when he consistently averaged 6th that was the case.

There hasn't been a situation for a long time that we weren't worse off resource wise than about 6 teams. Even before City emerged or Spurs there was Newcastle throwing tens of millions at it. And bear in mind that Koeman will get a better crack of the whip than either Moyes or Martinez had finacially speaking.

No mate, there can be no happy acceptance after this season of the best of the rest pat on the head.

Obviously you have your take and I have mine, but remember the 5th's only meant we had to overtake 1 club, so whether they had a bad season or we had a brilliant one I will leave for others to decide. Spurs and especially Newcastle were by words in wastefulness for years.

Generally speaking where you finish is roughly how much gets put in. Pretty much all the top teams are well run, there is a celling to how much we can improve while others occupy those places, you may smash through it occasionally like a Leicester, but there are better teams and more of them now even compared to 3 years ago.

 

[davek]

No contradiction there at all Dave.

I already said that most would be expecting us to challenge, if not qualify, for a champions league place in year 2. So to finish 7th again would not be acceptable. The vast majority of us will want to see an improvement on this year. In fact some will be demanding it.

But that doesn't mean that it won't be a very difficult challenge for us, and if we do qualify for UCL, then hats off to Koeman, he'd probably get manager of the year.

Nowhere in that second paragraph do I say that 7th place is acceptable. What I am saying is that your original BS comments are, in fact BS.

It's always been difficult but we managed to nose past at least one of those six teams on a regular basis. I would say it is expected that a manager vaunted as 'a level up' from what we've had before achieves that - at least.

 

[davek]

Obviously you have your take and I have mine, but remember the 5th's only meant we had to overtake 1 club, so whether they had a bad season or we had a brilliant one I will leave for others to decide. Spurs and especially Newcastle were by words in wastefulness for years.

Generally speaking where you finish is roughly how much gets put in. Pretty much all the top teams are well run, there is a celling to how much we can improve while others occupy those places, you may smash through it occasionally like a Leicester, but there are better teams and more of them now even compared to 3 years ago.

No, two clubs if you start off in 7th...which is where we all expect to be in May.

Like it or not, this club has the expectation that we get in amongst the European places. That will not now change when we have a man in charge purported to be a superstar manager and allowed to spend more than his predecessors. That simply wont be allowed to stand. He builds on this season's expected 7th placing or we aren't really going anywhere under him.

 

[SerenityNigh]

This manager bought in 6 players that have improved the first team massively.

And thats despite 1 of them being crocked.

We have seen a reduction from goals conceded last season from 35 GA to 18 GA already, thats thanks to Williams, Stek and Gana, Bolaise was making a massive difference and Morgs and Mola have slotted in nicely.

And its not 72m, its 80m, a net spend of MINUS 8m.

Not bad house keeping.

Are you counting wages in the net spend or future fees?

 

[SerenityNigh]

Would another 6 of the same caliber come this time next year keep you happy?

We shouldn't need 6 more, but the next have got to be better. So, you didn't ask me, but no; that would be walking backwards.

 

[Barnfred 55]

It's always been difficult but we managed to nose past at least one of those six teams on a regular basis. I would say it is expected that a manager vaunted as 'a level up' from what we've had before achieves that - at least.

I don't believe I have ever heard anybody say that it wasn't difficult for Moyes (and indeed Martinez in his first season) to achieve 6th or higher in the league. In fact we have long been known as a team who punches above our weight. So I don't know why you are bringing that into the discussion now. However I'm glad you did.

Kevin Ratcliffe said breaking into that "top 6" is a challenge. He didn't say it was impossible he said it was a challenge. You said these comments were BS, and that we were all buying into it. But you just said above that it's always been difficult!!. Why has it suddenly become "not difficult" Dave?

Also what do you describe as regular basis Dave. Since City and Spurs joined the party, Moyes league finishes where 8th, 7th,7th and 6th. So he gate crashed the party 1 in 4. RM, as we know, gate crashed 1 in 3. That's 2 in 7.

If Koeman doesn't better that ratio I, along with most Everton fans, will be disappointed.

 

[Goat]

Are you counting wages in the net spend or future fees?

It was very rough math, no I didnt factor in wages.

Its based on 8m for The Clev, 10m for Niasse, 15m for Geri, possibly on the higher end of the fees we will get, but with The Clev and Niasse there is a fee in place and I did see 15m for Geri floating around, but thats probably pushing it.

 

[The binman chronicles]

No, two clubs if you start off in 7th...which is where we all expect to be in May.

Like it or not, this club has the expectation that we get in amongst the European places. That will not now change when we have a man in charge purported to be a superstar manager and allowed to spend more than his predecessors. That simply wont be allowed to stand. He builds on this season's expected 7th placing or we aren't really going anywhere under him.

No, back then it was just one due to man city/spurs not being regulars. You are trying to judge Koeman using a different yard stick.

 

[Lee Smith]

Be interesting to see if anyone's opinions have changed since posting in a similar thread from last June... https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/...er-to-be-success-under-the-new-manager.88893/

Back then I said :

"Assuming he gets £100m to spend (plus gets to spend all of any money raised from high profile sales of Rom / Stones etc) then I would 'expect'...

Season 1 : 6th or 7th, as I'll treat this as a stabilising / rebuilding season following the shambles of the last two years

Season 2 : 5th and knocking on the door of top 4

Season 3 : Top 4"

So for me he's on par with what I was hoping for, and that's even without spending the sort of money that some of us were hoping we would have done by now.

 

[SerenityNigh]

It was very rough math, no I didnt factor in wages.

Its based on 8m for The Clev, 10m for Niasse, 15m for Geri, possibly on the higher end of the fees we will get, but with The Clev and Niasse there is a fee in place and I did see 15m for Geri floating around, but thats probably pushing it.

 

[davek]

I don't believe I have ever heard anybody say that it wasn't difficult for Moyes (and indeed Martinez in his first season) to achieve 6th or higher in the league. In fact we have long been known as a team who punches above our weight. So I don't know why you are bringing that into the discussion now. However I'm glad you did.

Kevin Ratcliffe said breaking into that "top 6" is a challenge. He didn't say it was impossible he said it was a challenge. You said these comments were BS, and that we were all buying into it. But you just said above that it's always been difficult!!. Why has it suddenly become "not difficult" Dave?

Also what do you describe as regular basis Dave. Since City and Spurs joined the party, Moyes league finishes where 8th, 7th,7th and 6th. So he gate crashed the party 1 in 4. RM, as we know, gate crashed 1 in 3. That's 2 in 7.

If Koeman doesn't better that ratio I, along with most Everton fans, will be disappointed.

It's a challenge that he's making sound like a mountain to climb, thats why I said it was BS. It used to be cracking the top4 then top5 now top6...where is this 'exclusive' club heading to? It's a fig leaf to cover for the inadequacies of teams outside the financial elite to demolish it on a regular basis. 5 out of the last 10 seasons we've got top 6 or better. Why are we saying that's a bigger challenge than it is exactly?

 

[MrGrumpy]

..but Man Utd winning the League Cup is a dependency, there's nothing we can do about it. Our season being a success is not based on United getting a win against Southampton.

my point was , you said it was highly unlikely to get in the EL an I said it wasn't, but you are correct our season isn't based on Utd winning but it helps make it more successful

 

[Barnfred 55]

Other teams have improved Dave. Spurs & Man City were not really a problem when Moyes got his best finish, so we just needed liverpool to have a bad season/distracted by the CL. Just as Man utd after Ferguson struggled and we beat a rebuilding spurs team by 3 points under Martinez. I said that is possible we could go above 1 or possibly 2 teams but that's more as a once only thing. Arsenal may struggle once Wenger leaves, but they may kick on if the purse strings really open, the rest of the teams are either settled and or have got managers who will improve them over the next few years.

Of course you don't sit and try to be 7th, we should always push but in terms of resources and attracting players we are where we should be and next season will be the same. In what way do you think we can compete with Man utd/City and Chelsea? Even if we had unlimited funds, they would put an offer to match ours and the player would choose them.

That leaves a four way fight with Arsenal, Spurs, RS and ourselves, but of all the teams we are furthest behind.

We just got taken over too late to make a big sudden impact like what occurred at city. Now I'm not just being a Debbie downer, I have faith we can turn it around but my timescale is the next 3-5 years. Don't expect next season to be miraculously different when 6 rich clubs and the biggest clubs abroad still take the majority of the players we would want.

Think our aim for this year mate will be to cement 7th and get as close as possible to the group above us. If we finish within 3 points of 6th I won't be too disappointed, as it shows we don't have much ground to make up.

If you look at the squads of the teams above us, we probably have the most work to do. I actually see that as a positive because we therefore have more room for improvement. With the right acquisitions in the summer, I really do see us challenging for UCL next year. Hope I'm right and you're wrong