What do pre-season results really tell us?

[Abraders]

Worries me how Big Sam teams fall apart after he leaves he's a quick fix with nasty after effects.

It was broken in the first place though.

 

[Abraders]

That is a weird one. Gana's proven to be very good for us if used properly, but Jags & Williams are past-it and Keane & Schneiderlin haven't shown first-team quality. Browning's back, he showed some quality a while back and been good for Sunderland on loan, needs a run in the team. Holgate is decent. Sig can still improve if Silva's able to instill discipline & workrate into his game.

I believe the players are there to make a decent 11, a vastly-improved performance vs Valencia next week and maybe we can hit the ground running in the league after all.

Browning is not very good. Nowhere near our team

 

[Barnfred 55]

Note the poll question is about the result, the final score. Review of performances are more subjective.

Every summer there's a debate on here about how meaningful or not pre-season results are. Personally, I think they're important. Go into the season lame, with some players lacking in confidence & sharpness, and we risk a slow start to the real deal, playing catch-up for the rest of the season.

Let's compare ours with the top 6, and no way am I counting that ridiculous 22-0:

Everton 1 - 1 Bury
0 - 0 Lille (we lost on pens)
0 - 1 Porto
0 - 3 Blackburn
1 - 4 Rennes
(uff)

Chelsea 1 - 1 Inter Milan (Chelsea win on pens)
1 - 0 Perth Glory
(only found two, but both wins still)

Man Utd 1 - 4 RS
1 - 1 AC Milan (Man U win on pens)
0 - 0 San Jose
1 - 1 Club America
(not too hot from Jose, RedCafe probably nervous, but still a win vs Milan is something)

Man City 3 - 2 Bayern
1 - 2 RS
0 - 1 Dortmund
(all three vs pedigree there, that last win vs Bayern will have perked them up)

Spurs 2 - 2 Barcelona (Barca win on pens)
4 - 1 Roma
(exciting stuff!)

Arsenal 5 - 1 PSG
1 - 1 Athletico Madrid
8 - 0 Boreham Wood
(wow, massive confidence boost vs PSG there)

RS 7 - 0 Chester
3 - 2 Tranmere
0 - 0 Bury
2 - 0 Blackburn
1 - 3 Dortmund
2 - 1 Man City
4 - 1 Man Utd
(ffs)

3 things to take away here:

1) our lack of goals against average opposition is not gonna do our cause much good.
2) the only team the top 6 also played was Blackburn, while we lost 0-3 they beat Blackburn 2-0.
3) the top 6 pre-season results have something positive at least for the fans & players to take away, even if just pen-wins against Milan sides.


Pre-season friendlies are still match-time (even partly-competitive...some are decided on pens after all), the fans still follow and a little of that will carry over into the season proper. I for one feel we desperately need a good result vs Valencia (the first quality opposition we've faced too). A good result will give us all collectively a little positive rush. Another depressed performance resulting in defeat may result in a slower start to the season than we'd like, with the fans losing patience a little quicker than had we had a decent pre-season.

First and foremost it's about players fitness and getting them ready for the opening day of the season. For us this season, there is the added issue of having a new manager and it's an opportunity for him to run the rule over the current squad and also use the games to help players adapt to the new systems he wants to employ.

Beyond that, I don't think the results have any real significance to the coaching staff or the players, but they will be more important for the fans. I think a win against Valencia would undoubtedly make the latter happy, but I don't think it will matter that much to the coach and players. I think a good performance is more important.

Based on the games so far, I think Silva will be disappointed at the number of positives to be taken from them. He will have learnt a lot about the players, the fans less so. There's no surprise our defence has looked so poor, especially playing a high line. If we thought Silva would be able to get a tune out of any of our misfits, we were sadly mistaken (although I doubt many would have had any high hopes anyway). And our midfield needs tweeking if we're going to be able to play the way Silva wants.

The positives are that you can see a structure to the way we are trying to play, we just don't have the personnel in defence and midfield to execute it properly. Charlie looks to be a real prospect. And key players like Walcott, Lookman, Holgate (for his pace for the high line) and Pickford have not been available.

We all know what we need to bring in to give us a chance at a decent season and we have a reasonably easy start to the fixtures compared to last season so we have some time to get the team gelling. I haven't quite given up hope yet.

 

[dholliday]

Browning is not very good. Nowhere near our team

you think so? I admit I didn't watch him at Sunderland but reports are positive on how he developed there, and he looked bright when playing for us a couple of times before the loans.

 

[BiggyRat]

If you take all games into account, we're looking good on aggregate!

 

[Abraders]

you think so? I admit I didn't watch him at Sunderland but reports are positive on how he developed there, and he looked bright when playing for us a couple of times before the loans.

He's 24 and just been with Sunderland whom were relegated from the championship. Doesn't exactly scream quality.

Keep an eye on the young players out on loan thread. Seeing other fans comments game by game are usually a decent way to guage how a player is getting on. Browning got a lot of flak, Galloway more so mind.

 

[dholliday]

First and foremost it's about players fitness and getting them ready for the opening day of the season. For us this season, there is the added issue of having a new manager and it's an opportunity for him to run the rule over the current squad and also use the games to help players adapt to the new systems he wants to employ.

Beyond that, I don't think the results have any real significance to the coaching staff or the players, but they will be more important for the fans. I think a win against Valencia would undoubtedly make the latter happy, but I don't think it will matter that much to the coach and players. I think a good performance is more important.

Based on the games so far, I think Silva will be disappointed at the number of positives to be taken from them. He will have learnt a lot about the players, the fans less so. There's no surprise our defence has looked so poor, especially playing a high line. If we thought Silva would be able to get a tune out of any of our misfits, we were sadly mistaken (although I doubt many would have had any high hopes anyway). And our midfield needs tweeking if we're going to be able to play the way Silva wants.

The positives are that you can see a structure to the way we are trying to play, we just don't have the personnel in defence and midfield to execute it properly. Charlie looks to be a real prospect. And key players like Walcott, Lookman, Holgate (for his pace for the high line) and Pickford have not been available.

We all know what we need to bring in to give us a chance at a decent season and we have a reasonably easy start to the fixtures compared to last season so we have some time to get the team gelling. I haven't quite given up hope yet.

good post, mate

 

[tsubaki]

That is a weird one. Gana's proven to be very good for us if used properly, but Jags & Williams are past-it and Keane & Schneiderlin haven't shown first-team quality. Browning's back, he showed some quality a while back and been good for Sunderland on loan, needs a run in the team. Holgate is decent. Sig can still improve if Silva's able to instill discipline & workrate into his game.

I believe the players are there to make a decent 11, a vastly-improved performance vs Valencia next week and maybe we can hit the ground running in the league after all.

So do I, but I'd start to have very serious doubts about Silva if the team for the Valencia game features all the same faces we have come to dread.

 

[Barnfred 55]

you think so? I admit I didn't watch him at Sunderland but reports are positive on how he developed there, and he looked bright when playing for us a couple of times before the loans.

Think injuries did for him there. Same at Preston the previous season. There's possibly a decent defender in there if he can stay injury free. He's pacey and a good one on one defender and would suit playing a high line.

You look at Williams, Jagielka and Keane (I actually just shuddered typing that) and you see a trio that cannot defend one on one.

The fact that he's playing and training with the U23s doesn't auger well though. I would say another loan is on the cards, but I hope they leave it until the last day of the window just in case we don't bring in any other CDs as the prospect of relying on any of the above trio fills me with dread.

 

[chippy1722]

He's 24 and just been with Sunderland whom were relegated from the championship. Doesn't exactly scream quality.

Keep an eye on the young players out on loan thread. Seeing other fans comments game by game are usually a decent way to guage how a player is getting on. Browning got a lot of flak, Galloway more so mind.

I don’t remember any positives on Browning, and if he’s behind Pennington in the pecking order, that says enough.

 

[ilikecheese]

1. We are streets ahead of dairy farmers.
2. We have extremely slow players unfit to play the system the manager is trying to employ.

 

[Zezti]

Worries me how Big Sam teams fall apart after he leaves he's a quick fix with nasty after effects.

Not sure about this. I would not say its his fault in any capacity or his 'after effects'.
I think Sam is always brought in when a team has awful players and he grinds out enough points from bad performances to keep them up, then the club thinks the team can push forward and doesn't remedy the initial problem it had which then leads to them falling apart.
Our core problem has been the same for the last 4/5 years -- terrible defence that has only aged and got worse. Its no good to paper over the cracks. We need the spine of this team to be completely rebuilt.

 

[welshtoffee]

That we are really crap and so slow.

 

[fuko~]

Rubbish in CB and midfielders...
Cant see any quality and potential players in these two areas except gueye and holgate...

 

[Lob]

- That it will take more than one transfer window to clear out all the dead wood and bring in the quality needed to move us forward.
- We need to be patient and don't expect too much this first season.
- Give the Manager the backing and the time he needs to rebuild and move us forward.