Was it a Penalty?

[chrismpw]

It wasn't in my books, as the incident was all too fast and the hand already moving that way as part of the leap, to be deliberate.

I can see why it was given though, since the hand was moving and twisting which made it look deliberate., especially in slow motion.

Unlike @davek I think var will make it much harder for the elite clubs to get away with shenanigans as the ref and the team will have to come up with really compelling reasons as to why they chose to ignore an incident, or where they saw convincing contact, otherwise the FA will have to give them slightly more than a severe letting off to maintain any credibility (laughs at the thought!).

There will still be close calls, and there will be a lack of consistency of application and the lack of consistency will doubtlessly favour the elite, however var has rid us already of the penalty box wrestling, it would have rid us of Maradona's handball, it would have given us Lampard's goal and Louis Suarez would be a vegetarian by now.

I'm all for it. We'll have some good honest togger for a while until the authorities find a way to bend it to favour their cash cow elite.

 

[Tubey]

Thought it was a pen. i actually think he moved his hand to the ball. If the ref had given it live there wouldn't be half the [Poor language removed] afterwards.

His arm had no business being out there.

Yeah this ^

Completely clear penalty to me.

 

[davek]

It wasn't in my books, as the incident was all too fast and the hand already moving that way as part of the leap, to be deliberate.

I can see why it was given though, since the hand was moving and twisting which made it look deliberate., especially in slow motion.

Unlike @davek I think var will make it much harder for the elite clubs to get away with shenanigans as the ref and the team will have to come up with really compelling reasons as to why they chose to ignore an incident, or where they saw convincing contact, otherwise the FA will have to give them slightly more than a severe letting off to maintain any credibility (laughs at the thought!).

There will still be close calls, and there will be a lack of consistency of application and the lack of consistency will doubtlessly favour the elite, however var has rid us already of the penalty box wrestling, it would have rid us of Maradona's handball, it would have given us Lampard's goal and Louis Suarez would be a vegetarian by now.

I'm all for it. We'll have some good honest togger for a while until the authorities find a way to bend it to favour their cash cow elite.

Lots of VAR call backs are done when no team appeals. It'd be after the match that any inconsistency in call backs for incidents unseen would be flagged up - and if a missed incident affects a club outside of the elite then it wont be made a big deal of...unlike with an elite club when a song and dance would be made and the failure to see/act will be made up for in some other game...in fact, refs and VAR panelists for that very reason will be more vigilant about looking for advantageous cal back decisions for elite teams in order to avoid the public controversy.

Let's get real: the only reason the technology is being brought in is because it adds a talking point to the game and thereby keeps the lucrative football industry in the eye of the media and therefore makes cash...and it'll better ensure that the elite stay the elite. It's a massive step back for the game as a whole though.

 

[Pootsy]

Hand came down to the ball. Everyday pen.

 

[degsy]

As opposed to what happened yesterday? If you take the subjectivity out of it, as unfortunate it may be at times, you eliminate controversy.

Just my opinion.

The pen against Croatia was a penalty...as much as you could tell from the little 'flick' hand movement, it looked deliberate.
But what if there was no hand movement and the ball hit his hand which was down and not waving about in the air in a Maradona-esque manner.
There is no way you can move your hand/arm out of the way if the ball comes at you, especially at pace from a short distance.

If you go the full - no exceptions, If the ball hits the hand in the box its a penalty, you'll get, to name but two.
Defenders waddling about at speed with their arms behind their backs
Attackers just whacking the ball into the box, not even at the goal, hoping for a lucky hit to the hand/arm for a free shot at goal.
IMO, the Reff, as alway controls the game. He decides if it was deliberate or not...and the rule needs to less ambiguous to help him do that.
THEN, and only then, if he feels the need to, askes the VAR - did I see what I thought I saw.
The Reff controls the game...with help from the VAR
Not the other way round.

 

[Harryflashman]

The pen against Croatia was a penalty...as much as you could tell from the little 'flick' hand movement, it looked deliberate.
.

Not meaning to change the tone of your post by quoting on the first paragraph but for me that bit was key , it looked at first glance to be a penalty for me exactly because of that movement. I was genuinely surprised by the reaction of so many people that seem appalled by the decision , for me it’s that very action that made it a clearer.

Obviously every time the ball hits a hand in the box it’s not a pen but in my opinion things like unnatural positioning or hand movements like the one in the final make the decision easier

 

[bignev23]

Can't really argue with the decision his arm was out away from the side of his body towards the ball and he opened his hand as well, if that's given first time( not VAR) or for Croatia there's not much fuss about it but it was the second decision by the ref that went France's way that led to another goal in a game they were second best in upto that point so it was disappointing and felt harsh on Croatia.

 

[chrismpw]

Lots of VAR call backs are done when no team appeals. It'd be after the match that any inconsistency in call backs for incidents unseen would be flagged up - and if a missed incident affects a club outside of the elite then it wont be made a big deal of...unlike with an elite club when a song and dance would be made and the failure to see/act will be made up for in some other game...in fact, refs and VAR panelists for that very reason will be more vigilant about looking for advantageous cal back decisions for elite teams in order to avoid the public controversy.

Let's get real: the only reason the technology is being brought in is because it adds a talking point to the game and thereby keeps the lucrative football industry in the eye of the media and therefore makes cash...and it'll better ensure that the elite stay the elite. It's a massive step back for the game as a whole though.

You raise a valid concern. However the existence of var means a great deal of the obvious cheating won't bring the rewards it always has, for their top sides with their paid-off ref.

The media will still cosset their cash cows to preserve their income, like you say it, but as far as I can see they are going to have to be far mire careful, and they'll get away with less.

I'd love to see it used to retrospectively ban blstent cheats, but perhaps that won't be necessary in the long run, as it really has to be a force in eradicating the Steven Gerrard and Louis Suarez brand of cheatball from the game.

We'll just have to wait and see how it pans out, but I'm optimistic.

 

[hallamblue]

It's the slow motion that's the issue, like the pen that the RS got when Salah was breathed on hard and dived. Yes there was contact, but in slow motion it nearly always looks like a penalty.

 

[jtl60]

Initially I thought no, for 12 hours I thought no. But the more I've seen it I am thinking yes. He does move his arm towards the ball, intentionally or not we will never no.