Virginia Giuffre

[Armaghtoffee]

A cautionary tale of the consequences of bad choices early in life and the difficulties of trying to blame everyone else when you are older ...

‘Koff.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Also makes him look an absolute wrong'un.

We've only seen/heard a small percentage of what's in those files. I shudder to think what the currently unreleased rest of them contain.

To even begin to try and defend it is as bad as being there.

I won’t go as far as that, I assume that Tony is as disgusted by Epstein as the rest of us.

However what I find extremely frustrating generally, and you see if in cases of domestic abuse too, is comments of “why did they stay with their abuser”?

Or “They made wrong, stupid or naive decisions” said from the comfort and safety of distance and never walking in those shoes. We all make wrong, stupid or naive decisions! Particularly when we are young. It doesn’t mean we should be raped or beaten up - the criticism should be on the person doing the abuse.

 

[Blue 1]

epstein ended up jailed for sex trafficking.
maxwell was made a token prisoner for a bit and is sunning herself in a country club (min security) in Texas.
and the guy who had the above pair facilitate his sordid deeds with teenage girls, lost his job shaking hands with murderous despots and dictators because they didn't want to be seen with him.
Reduced almost to a commoner*, even his penniless ex wife that he'd shacked back up with doesn't want to know any more.

The wrong crowd? These people are serious criminals, and even though the details and depth of their misdeeds are currently being withheld, two have been imprisoned, and the other is a world wide pariah that continues to deny absolutely everything.

you've played a blinder here Tone.

And one of them is the POTUS.

 

[LinekersLegs]

And one of them is the POTUS.

Very similar to current POTUS is a former one. Clinton was frequently in Epsteins company and he was hardly free from assault allegations and scandal even seperate from that.

 

[Blue 1]

Very similar to current POTUS is a former one. Clinton was frequently in Epsteins company and he was hardly free from assault allegations and scandal even seperate from that.

Ugh Clinton is a sleazeball.

 

[Prevenger17]

More or less what I said?

Em, nope

 

[IllinoisBlue]

A cautionary tale of the consequences of bad choices early in life and the difficulties of trying to blame everyone else when you are older ...

You are not, by any chance, the Andrew formerly known as Prince?

 

[Amw79]

I was remiss in my previous post not mentioning the name of the Miami Herald reporter - Julie K Brown.

Her diligent and emotionally difficult work to expose Epstein and his circle has been superb and directly lead to reopening up of investigations.

Meet Julie K Brown, the woman who brought down Jeffrey Epstein

It was by focusing on his silenced victims, says the dogged Miami Herald reporter, that she was able to help bring the billionaire sex offender to justice

www.theguardian.com

Yep. Recommend her book ‘Perversion of Justice’, for anyone who wants to understand how Epstein and Maxwell operated. Don’t think anyone has done more to get to the truth about Epstein, than Julie Brown.

 

[Bryan+]

Yep. Recommend her book ‘Perversion of Justice’, for anyone who wants to understand how Epstein and Maxwell operated. Don’t think anyone has done more to get to the truth about Epstein, than Julie Brown.

Thanks will check for this, appreciate it.

 

[tonyhorne]

I won’t go as far as that, I assume that Tony is as disgusted by Epstein as the rest of us.

Very much so. At no point have I ever tried to defend or excuse anything he, or his ilk, do or have done.

However what I find extremely frustrating generally, and you see if in cases of domestic abuse too, is comments of “why did they stay with their abuser”?

I have never said that, either.

We all make wrong, stupid or naive decisions! Particularly when we are young. It doesn’t mean we should be raped or beaten up

I have never advocated that, either.


I maintain that nothing I have said is factually incorrect or irrelevant. However, as it seems that several folks interpret what I did say in those posts in ways that upset and anger them and that this is no evangelical cause for me, I will not comment further.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Very much so. At no point have I ever tried to defend or excuse anything he, or his ilk, do or have done.

I have never said that, either.


I have never advocated that, either.


I maintain that nothing I have said is factually incorrect or irrelevant. However, as it seems that several folks interpret what I did say in those posts in ways that upset and anger them and that this is no evangelical cause for me, I will not comment further.

I know you have not explicitly defended or excused anything Epstein did.

In fact you have only tangentially referenced he at all with vague “wrong crowd”, “abusive arrangement that she regretted”, “whole sorry mess around Epstein” comments. But those are hardly ringing condemnations of him and his actions either so perhaps you can see why some people may have questioned your stance on him?

All of you focus has been on the “choices” that you believe Virginia did or didn’t make, as per your first “ A cautionary tale of the consequences of bad choices early in life and the difficulties of trying to blame everyone else when you are older”. It is that apparent assignment of responsibility to Virginia for any part in her abuse at the hands of Epstein and his ilk is why people are upset and angered by your comments Tony.

I included the word generally in my second paragraph to indicate that I was moving on from your comments and speaking about the views that are often expressed either explicitly or implicitly with depressing regularity when there are discussions of this type.

And I will emphasize yet again that I feel it should be very clear whose actions should be scrutinized in such discussions because of its possible impact on current victims.

 

[LostLegend]

Some Olympic level backpedaling going on in this thread, yikes.

 

[LinekersLegs]

I’m just going to leave this here along with a link to the England and Wales rape crisis centre, there is counseling and help available.

What is rape?

Rape happens when someone didn't want to have sex or didn't give their consent for sex to happen. It is a form of sexual violence and a very serious crime.

rapecrisis.org.uk

How the law defines 'consent'
Under English and Welsh law, someone consents to sex or other sexual activity when they agree to it by choice and have both the freedom and capacity to make that choice.

This means that someone doesn't consent to sex or other sexual activity if they:

Say 'no'.
Seem unsure or upset, stay quiet, move away or don't respond.
Are asleep, unconscious, drunk, drugged or on drugs.
Are pressured, manipulated, tricked or scared into saying 'yes'.
Are too young or vulnerable to have the freedom and capacity to make that choice.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Jebus cripes, the forum creeps and wrong uns are outing themselves in here.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Jebus cripes, the forum creeps and wrong uns are outing themselves in here.

I do not, and any further suggestions that I do and you'll hear from my lawyers!