….such a sad story, some men are truly dreadful human beings exploiting girls as they did in this case then hiding behind their power and wealth. They should be exposed and convicted even if they’re POTUS or an ex-Prince.
Virginia Giuffre
- Thread starter Bryan+
- Start date
- Status
The Binman
Player Valuation: £15m
Many people read about what happened with Epstein and his victims and think “how did he get away with it for so long”?
And comments like the one you reference help explain it - some people didn’t/don’t think Virginia and the other girls Epstein trafficked are victims at all.
The particularly sad thing is that other abuse victims often hear comments like that and believe the abuse is somehow their fault, not their abuser, and thus don’t report them.
I am resisting a really inappropriate comment.
tonyhorne
Immoderate
I wasn't going to respond to these, but I agree with the "if only you knew" view expressed. None of us know.
I stand by my words and, whilst we are all entitled to our own opinion, I do not believe the other two posts are reasonable interpretations of them.
Bryan+
Player Valuation: £35m
There is 12 million reasons to believe her.
You seemed pretty clear that you do think you know - “ A cautionary tale of the consequences of bad choices early in life and the difficulties of trying to blame everyone else when you are older ”.
I cannot read your words, the words you apparently stand by, and think of any reasonable interpretation than you are saying Virginia is responsible for what happened to her.
tonyhorne
Immoderate
I believe my original statement to be accurate except for the blame "everyone else" hyperbole. The reasonable interpretation of what I said is that she got mixed up with the wrong crowd and there were poor decisions somewhere along the way that led to that.
It would not surprise me if the choices made were naive and that she quickly found herself in an abusive arrangement that she regretted, but I do not know.
I do not know how those choices were made. I do not know why those choices were made, by her and not others, and I do not know where her friends and family were whilst all this (whatever it was) was going on. I genuinely do not know "what happened to her" and I suspect, respectfully, that none of us do. However, I will concede that whatever did happen is unlikely to be anything I would be happy for a daughter of mine to go through.
I understand the revulsion but, ultimately, very few people know for sure the truth of the whole sorry mess around Epstein. I suspect that there are no heroes and so, personally, I think it is best to consider the narrative around the subject of this thread to be a cautionary tale ...
Rita_Poon
Player Valuation: £100m
Do you have any hot takes on the never land ranch? Digging in this far it seems mildly appropriate... (or not)...
tonyhorne
Immoderate
Well, I struggled for an appropriate word there. I didn't want to use "relationship".
I have no hot takes on anything. For some reason, I chose to proffer an opinion. I doubt any good will come of expanding on it further ...
magicjuan
Player Valuation: £60m
That opinion you proffered still lays the blame at the girl's door. Whatever misjudgement a girl makes shouldn't lay them open to abuse.
You can see the linear thinking is akin to rape victims being scolded for wearing short skirts.
Maybe your 'opinion' but it is uneducated and says a lot about how you formulate those opinions.
Bryan+
Player Valuation: £35m
This will be my final reply to you, I assume you climb flag poles, have a fear of brown people and think Ant Middleton is a hero too, you’ve painted yourself as such so don’t shy away from the very real truths you’ve conveyed to everyone here.
You’re describing a trafficked child as someone who simply made “poor decisions” and “got mixed up with the wrong crowd.” That’s not just inaccurate…. a child cannot “choose” to be groomed, trafficked, or sexually abused. That’s not a lapse in judgment; that’s a crime committed against her one which you’ve choosing to seemingly agree with?
The “crowd” you’re referring to wasn’t a group of misguided people, it was a network of the rich and powerful who systematically exploited vulnerable girls, one of whom was trafficked to a man who later paid £12 million to settle the claim against him. Another of her abusers died in custody under federal investigation. Others are serving long sentences. These aren’t coincidences or “naïve choices.” They are consequences because what she said happened did happen and have been proved I’m sure you are one of the fine folks who “does their own research”, so please do it please big man
Meanwhile, the feller you’re defending has been stripped of his royal titles, removed from public duties, and evicted from royal residences by his own family, one of the most powerful(???) institutions in the world. That doesn’t happen because of “decisions.” It happens because the stench of guilt became impossible to ignore I assume, but Tony here wants to ignore it on his little forum posts.
Saying “we don’t know what really happened” is a convenient way to protect your own discomfort, not an honest reflection of the facts. We do know what happened. The courts, the settlements, the convictions, the testimonies they all point to a pattern of abuse that destroyed her while powerful people closed ranks around each other.
Reducing her ordeal to a “cautionary tale” is an insult. The lesson here isn’t about her “choices.” It’s about how easily you’ve excused predators when they’re wealthy, connected, or royal and how quickly it questions a victim when she dared to speak the truth about them, and isn’t it funny the outrage of her abusers suspicious death is so prominent yet her own tragic death is seemingly not, and I pray to God you don’t have a wife or kids who are girls, because that quite frankly sickens me to think you’re a parent who have this view.
Never mind being a blue, a human! you have identified yourself as someone with quite dangerous views tbh.
Defending pedophiles is an interesting hill to die on..
davids
Player Valuation: £70m
That's a huge leap.
- Status
Welcome
Join Grand Old Team to get involved in the Everton discussion. Signing up is quick, easy, and completely free.
Shop
