Current Affairs Vaccinations (v2.0)

[Blue 1]

greenmedinfo lol

 

[Groucho]

Well, this thread is all a little one-sided. Allow me to throw a stone in the pond.

The consistent newspaper scare tactic of highlighting extreme individual data points to make the argument is scientifically worthless.

Studies are better, but if you want to argue there are no problems associated with vaccinations, then friends I have a carefully maintained bridge that - lucky you - has just become available.

Here’s a piece on measles that illustrates the point that there are always trade-offs - and it may well be that the benefits do not outweigh the drawbacks:

Measles: The New Red Scare

Irrational Measles Fear is being used as a Pretext for Infringing on Individual Rights

www.greenmedinfo.com

Fun fact - the measles vaccine was so powerful that it actually worked before it was released

I post a piece illustrating some issues with measles vaccination and you come back with a hit piece on a critical study on polio.

Mmmkay.

Actually, we see the same phenomenon here - namely a large decline in the disease before introduction of the vaccine - in this case the spike in incidence was possibly due to introduction of DDT:

View attachment 55621

source: http://vaxinfostarthere.com/did-vaccines-save-us/

But also there was a redefinition of polio in the wake of the vaccine that brought incidence down further - see: https://thevaccinereaction.org/2015/07/polio-wasnt-vanquished-it-was-redefined/

There is not one single baldy reason not to have a vaccine unless you are allergic to one of the components. Not getting vaccinated against a harmful virus is madness and asking for trouble.

This thread is one sided for a reason, that being that the anti-vaccine movement is based on lies and entirely fabricated evidence.

There is no link to vaccines and autism, not one single link. It was entirely made up by a doctor who has been struck off because of it.

 

[SerenityNigh]

You would need a full body condom, just in case.

Can you just vaccinate as a precaution instead?

*Oh, someone already made that joke... last month... as you were

 

[SerenityNigh]

There is not one single baldy reason not to have a vaccine unless you are allergic to one of the components. Not getting vaccinated against a harmful virus is madness and asking for trouble.

This thread is one sided for a reason, that being that the anti-vaccine movement is based on lies and entirely fabricated evidence.

There is no link to vaccines and autism, not one single link. It was entirely made up by a doctor who has been struck off because of it.

There isn't any credible link, but there was a link between US vaccination programs in the 70s and Gullain Barre Syndrome. There is definitely a risk/side effect of vaccinations, but the risk from not vaccinating is demonstrably larger. Fortunately, if you have vaccinated your kids for disease like Measles, the risk of them getting the disease is very, very small.

 

[RAFUH]

There isn't any credible link, but there was a link between US vaccination programs in the 70s and Gullain Barre Syndrome. There is definitely a risk/side effect of vaccinations, but the risk from not vaccinating is demonstrably larger. Fortunately, if you have vaccinated your kids for disease like Measles, the risk of them getting the disease is very, very small.

Everything in life is risk vs benefit.

 

[dead_soft]

There isn't any credible link, but there was a link between US vaccination programs in the 70s and Gullain Barre Syndrome. There is definitely a risk/side effect of vaccinations, but the risk from not vaccinating is demonstrably larger. Fortunately, if you have vaccinated your kids for disease like Measles, the risk of them getting the disease is very, very small.

I know this seems like I'm nit-picking but your first sentence is pointless and deserves being called out. There is no evidence that supports the link. There were a couple of studies that saw a very very small rise but not enough to put this down to the vaccine being the cause. It is not something that should be repeated as any proof of risk.

 

[SerenityNigh]

I know this seems like I'm nit-picking but your first sentence is pointless and deserves being called out. There is no evidence that supports the link. There were a couple of studies that saw a very very small rise but not enough to put this down to the vaccine being the cause. It is not something that should be repeated as any proof of risk.

I don’t think anything I’ve written is in disagreement with what you’ve said or want me to say. You just want me to take a stronger stance.

 

[dublinbluenose]

 

[SerenityNigh]

Everything in life is risk vs benefit.

Is this in response to the Jenny McCarthy comments?

 

[roydo]

There is no link to vaccines and autism, not one single link. It was entirely made up by a doctor who has been struck off because of it.

As you know mate, I have/had skin the game re ^^^^^ that. It wasnt "made up". The doctor, who's name escapes me, monitored the levels of heavy metals in the guts of infants, who either had, or did, develop autistic behaviours. And there was a correlation with the levels rising post the MMR vaccination.

His error was leaping to the link being down to the MMR jab. Which was compounded by the fact that diagnosis of autism USUALLY occurs in the months and years post vaccination. You cant test for it. You have to wait for it, and evaluate what spectrum if any, a child may be on.

Lancet published, Daily Mail etal jumped in, and bingo. But I clearly remember being told by a GP at the time that there were serious medical bodies researching and having conferences and stuff about the issue before it made the news.

And FWIW, the link has never been fully disproved. Mainly because no one knows what causes autism. If anything actually does. IMHO, the reason more folk "have" autism, is mainly cos the medical profession are better at diagnosis. I believe pretty much everybody displays a level of autism. Mozart deffo did for example.

 

[Groucho]

As you know mate, I have/had skin the game re ^^^^^ that. It wasnt "made up". The doctor, who's name escapes me, monitored the levels of heavy metals in the guts of infants, who either had, or did, develop autistic behaviours. And there was a correlation with the levels rising post the MMR vaccination.

His error was leaping to the link being down to the MMR jab. Which was compounded by the fact that diagnosis of autism USUALLY occurs in the months and years post vaccination. You cant test for it. You have to wait for it, and evaluate what spectrum if any, a child may be on.

Lancet published, Daily Mail etal jumped in, and bingo. But I clearly remember being told by a GP at the time that there were serious medical bodies researching and having conferences and stuff about the issue before it made the news.

And FWIW, the link has never been fully disproved. Mainly because no one knows what causes autism. If anything actually does. IMHO, the reason more folk "have" autism, is mainly cos the medical profession are better at diagnosis. I believe pretty much everybody displays a level of autism. Mozart deffo did for example.

Aye you’ve been through it.

That Wakefield was disproved and struck off I think though.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

As you know mate, I have/had skin the game re ^^^^^ that. It wasnt "made up". The doctor, who's name escapes me, monitored the levels of heavy metals in the guts of infants, who either had, or did, develop autistic behaviours. And there was a correlation with the levels rising post the MMR vaccination.

His error was leaping to the link being down to the MMR jab. Which was compounded by the fact that diagnosis of autism USUALLY occurs in the months and years post vaccination. You cant test for it. You have to wait for it, and evaluate what spectrum if any, a child may be on.

Lancet published, Daily Mail etal jumped in, and bingo. But I clearly remember being told by a GP at the time that there were serious medical bodies researching and having conferences and stuff about the issue before it made the news.

And FWIW, the link has never been fully disproved. Mainly because no one knows what causes autism. If anything actually does. IMHO, the reason more folk "have" autism, is mainly cos the medical profession are better at diagnosis. I believe pretty much everybody displays a level of autism. Mozart deffo did for example.

While I agree with most of what you’ve written there, and certainly sympathise with anyone who’s had to deal with spectrum related issues, your assessment of Wakefield’s study just isn’t right.

His study (as flawed and fraudulent as it was) didn’t even demonstrate a causal link as it only looked at 12 cases.

And it WAS fraudulent. He fabricated and altered results.

Multiple studies since have failed to prove any links between vaccinations and autism. They haven’t DISPROVEN it because proving the absence of something is nigh on impossible.

 

[roydo]

While I agree with most of what you’ve written there, and certainly sympathise with anyone who’s had to deal with spectrum related issues, your assessment of Wakefield’s study just isn’t right.

His study (as flawed and fraudulent as it was) didn’t even demonstrate a causal link as it only looked at 12 cases.

And it WAS fraudulent. He fabricated results.

Multiple studies since have failed to prove any links between vaccinations and autism. They haven’t DISPROVEN it because proving the absence of something is nigh on impossible.

Wakefield, thats the bloke. I wasnt defending him, all I was saying is that at the time, must be 20 years ago, when my lad was going through the process of diagnosis, his work had traction in the field. Before the Lancent published his paper.

And, yeah, you cant disprove it as you say, but his central issue, (heavy metals) most likely had some legs. Many years later, my lad was tested over many months, and there were spikes in his urine of calcium, protein, and sommet else, that coincided with the lunar cycle.

The mistake they all made was drawing a conclusion from an observation. The observation had some validity, the conclusion was a stab in the dark.

Perhaps nothing causes Autism. It is just who you are.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

Wakefield, thats the bloke. I wasnt defending him, all I was saying is that at the time, must be 20 years ago, when my lad was going through the process of diagnosis, his work had traction in the field. Before the Lancent published his paper.

And, yeah, you cant disprove it as you say, but his central issue, (heavy metals) most likely had some legs. Many years later, my lad was tested over many months, and there were spikes in his urine of calcium, protein, and sommet else, that coincided with the lunar cycle.

The mistake they all made was drawing a conclusion from an observation. The observation had some validity, the conclusion was a stab in the dark.

Perhaps nothing causes Autism. It is just who you are.

The paper had some traction because he falsified his results.

He said that 9 of the 12 children studied had regressive autism - only 1 did.

He reported all 9 as “previously normal” - 5 of them had had previously highlighted developmental concerns (prior to MMR)

He reported that behavioural changes had come within days of the vaccination, when in the cases where such a change WAS truly reported, the onset was months afterwards.

He changed results to show presence of colitis in subjects where none were found.

It’s not surprising the study gained traction - he went to extensive fraudulent lengths to ensure that it did.

Oh, and he had also planned to launch a company on the back of the scare he fabricated selling diagnostic kits that would have made him tens of millions a year.

 

[roydo]

The paper had some traction because he falsified his results.

He said that 9 of the 12 children studied had regressive autism - only 1 did.

He reported all 9 as “previously normal” - 5 of them had had previously highlighted developmental concerns (prior to MMR)

He reported that behavioural changes had come within days of the vaccination, when in the cases where such a change WAS truly reported, the onset was months afterwards.

He changed results to show presence of colitis in subjects where none were found.

It’s not surprising the study gained traction - he went to extensive fraudulent lengths to ensure that it did.

Oh, and he had also planned to launch a company on the back of the scare he fabricated selling diagnostic kits that would have made him tens of millions a year.

Didnt know that. Thought he just got it wrong.