Usmanov

[catcherintherye]

I dont see it happening personally.

I see the two of them being in cahoots at Everton and Arsenal like a consortium, one at Everton the other at Arsenal.

I think because the stake in Arsenal grew in vaule so much , they said to themsleves it makes sense to double our exposure in the PL. Cue Mosh coming to Everton so one holds their exposure in Arsenal the other in Everton, they double their exposure to the gravy train. Why would you throw the whole lot in at Everton when you will make more in your investment at Arsenal and Everton. Then just Everton.

The only time i see that changing is when their investment is better off wholly at Everton, i'm not sure that is the case.

Just my opinion mind. I dont accept the sporting or vanity argument.

It makes a lot of sense what you say, essentially why limit yourself to one club when you could have 2? They also have very different profiles so minimises risks.

I think where it falls down though, is that Usmanov has zero influence at Arsenal. While he may be happy with that (many people would be) everything we have heard so far seem to indicate he wants to a) have some influence and b) run the club in a vastly different way to the current ownership.

It seems unlikely to me that he's content at being in the background with no control. He's also a shrewd man, he may feel that 500+ million for his shares is a decent price, maybe Arsenal are towards the top of their market, or that his investment would grow quicker at Everton and particularly along the Liverpool waterfront.

If he wants control of a club, he will not get that at Arsenal.

 

[trueblue84]

It makes a lot of sense what you say, essentially why limit yourself to one club when you could have 2? They also have very different profiles so minimises risks.

I think where it falls down though, is that Usmanov has zero influence at Arsenal. While he may be happy with that (many people would be) everything we have heard so far seem to indicate he wants to a) have some influence and b) run the club in a vastly different way to the current ownership.

It seems unlikely to me that he's content at being in the background with no control. He's also a shrewd man, he may feel that 500+ million for his shares is a decent price, maybe Arsenal are towards the top of their market, or that his investment would grow quicker at Everton and particularly along the Liverpool waterfront.

If he wants control of a club, he will not get that at Arsenal.

I agree. Surely, if it was about spreading your options, moshiri would've stayed at the arse were he'd still simply be making money? Usmanov wants control of a club for the status.

 

[Neiler]

It makes a lot of sense what you say, essentially why limit yourself to one club when you could have 2? They also have very different profiles so minimises risks.

I think where it falls down though, is that Usmanov has zero influence at Arsenal. While he may be happy with that (many people would be) everything we have heard so far seem to indicate he wants to a) have some influence and b) run the club in a vastly different way to the current ownership.

It seems unlikely to me that he's content at being in the background with no control. He's also a shrewd man, he may feel that 500+ million for his shares is a decent price, maybe Arsenal are towards the top of their market, or that his investment would grow quicker at Everton and particularly along the Liverpool waterfront.

If he wants control of a club, he will not get that at Arsenal.

That may well be the case mate, ultimately we are all speculating. If my hypothesis is right he may be exerting control at Everton already and still holding his Arsenal shares.

That premise for me exists across a spectrum of being desirable having an influence Vs 100's of million appreciating year on year. Ultimately these guys are investors, everything about them screams to me invest and make a profit, influence or having a profile owning a club becomes a vanity argument to me. Lads will have different opinions on influence/profile Vs double appreciating investments and exposures. To be honest i think they would go for increased exposures/appreciating investment all the time. Thats just my opinion mind and could well be wrong.

There is head room for Everton to grow as a club, Arsenal are pretty much at their glass ceiling, if Everton were to expierence a growth similar to in the last 10-30 years to Arsenal, City, Chelsa, Utd, i could see it happening, but only when their is more money to be made at Everton jointly together then seperately at Arsenal and Everton.

 

[catcherintherye]

I agree. Surely, if it was about spreading your options, moshiri would've stayed at the arse were he'd still simply be making money? Usmanov wants control of a club for the status.

What I think it is reasonable to say:
1) Usmanov has always stated his desire to run a football club
2) He has been unable to do so at Arsenal, that looks like it will always be the case. In order to do this he would need to leave. That point seems to be increasingly acknowledged by his people.
3) His business associate has a majority interest at a PL football club. There are agreements in place to purchase more shares. There is capital needed to kick start an infrastructure project that will return enormous values.
4) Usmanov invests in company's with potential to make more money.
5) Usmanov has a formal contractual relationship with said club and provides funds to them in exchange for sponsorship.
6) The BBC have alleged he is behind the spending at Everton. Nobody has been sued (as yet) for the program. Moshiri has also stated "they do everything together" when point 5 occurred.

None of this means "Usmanov is selling at Arsenal to buy Everton". There is probably a list of points you can make that might pour water on that theory. However each of the 6 points above would all be generally accepted and certainly hint at a wider narrative. Each can be challenged in their own right, but taken as a collective it is quite compelling evidence.

 

[catcherintherye]

That may well be the case mate, ultimately we are all speculating.

That premise for me exists across a spectrum of being desirable having an influence Vs 100's of million appreciating year on year. Ultimately these guys are investors, everything about them screams to me invest and make a profit, influence or having a profile owning a club becomes a vanity argument to me. Lads will have different opinion on influence/profile Vs double appreciating investments and exposures. To be honest i think they would go for increased exposures/appreciating investment all the time. Thats just my opinion mind and could well be wrong.

There is head room for Everton to grow as a club, Arsenal are pretty much at their glass ceiling, if Everton were to expierence a growth similar to in the last 10-30 years to Arsenal, City, Chelsa, Utd, i could see it happening, but only when their is more money to be made at Everton jointly together then seperately at Arsenal and Everton.

I think both motives exist. There is a lot to be said not just for the profile/ego but also the security that would come from being involved at a football club. It also generates a lot of power within a certain region (much less so in England than Russia to be fair) and influence on decisions in said area. So there is an altruism.

That being said I agree he's primarily a business man. Everton remains a massively under developed asset. It is the one club formally of the top 5 of the PL not to be monetised properly. It has a unique and compelling brand as well as a very loyal set of supporters. Any investor would see enormous potential there.

Alongside that, the city of Liverpool remains a bit of an untapped resource. You have a Mayor who is very keen to facilitate his investors but also the opportunity to buy land and property at a price that is significantly below London but also some of the rival cities in the North. You also have a water front which is world famous and different agencies looking to poor money in. Liverpool is already growing but with strategic investment that will continue to grow at a higher pace.

It's really not difficult to see, what an investor sees in the project. Look at Canary Wharf 20 years ago. Imagine if you owned numerous properties there now, as well as having a 55k stadium there, a PL team in that area and be known as the person who kick started it.

 

[Neiler]

I think both motives exist. There is a lot to be said not just for the profile/ego but also the security that would come from being involved at a football club. It also generates a lot of power within a certain region (much less so in England than Russia to be fair) and influence on decisions in said area. So there is an altruism.

That being said I agree he's primarily a business man. Everton remains a massively under developed asset. It is the one club formally of the top 5 of the PL not to be monetised properly. It has a unique and compelling brand as well as a very loyal set of supporters. Any investor would see enormous potential there.

Alongside that, the city of Liverpool remains a bit of an untapped resource. You have a Mayor who is very keen to facilitate his investors but also the opportunity to buy land and property at a price that is significantly below London but also some of the rival cities in the North. You also have a water front which is world famous and different agencies looking to poor money in. Liverpool is already growing but with strategic investment that will continue to grow at a higher pace.

It's really not difficult to see, what an investor sees in the project. Look at Canary Wharf 20 years ago. Imagine if you owned numerous properties there now, as well as having a 55k stadium there, a PL team in that area and be known as the person who kick started it.

And i thought there was "no better person in the world" then Bill to sell Everton! lol

I stick by my points mate, just my opinion it will only happen if it makes more sense owning Everton jointly, then Arsneal and Everton seperately. That may happen at some point, ifs an buts though.

I acknowledge the influence argument. but If my hypothesis is right he may be exerting control at Everton already and still holding his Arsenal shares.

 

[Steve Wigan]

That may well be the case mate, ultimately we are all speculating. If my hypothesis is right he may be exerting control at Everton already and still holding his Arsenal shares.

That premise for me exists across a spectrum of being desirable having an influence Vs 100's of million appreciating year on year. Ultimately these guys are investors, everything about them screams to me invest and make a profit, influence or having a profile owning a club becomes a vanity argument to me. Lads will have different opinions on influence/profile Vs double appreciating investments and exposures. To be honest i think they would go for increased exposures/appreciating investment all the time. Thats just my opinion mind and could well be wrong.

There is head room for Everton to grow as a club, Arsenal are pretty much at their glass ceiling, if Everton were to expierence a growth similar to in the last 10-30 years to Arsenal, City, Chelsa, Utd, i could see it happening, but only when their is more money to be made at Everton jointly together then seperately at Arsenal and Everton.

It won't cost him £500 million to buy 51% or 49% of Everton. What did Moshiri pay so far? I reckon Usmanov could sell his Arsenal shares and buy half-ish of Everton, and still have around £300 million or more in his back pocket.

 

[fandjango]

What I think it is reasonable to say:
1) Usmanov has always stated his desire to run a football club
2) He has been unable to do so at Arsenal, that looks like it will always be the case. In order to do this he would need to leave. That point seems to be increasingly acknowledged by his people.
3) His business associate has a majority interest at a PL football club. There are agreements in place to purchase more shares. There is capital needed to kick start an infrastructure project that will return enormous values.
4) Usmanov invests in company's with potential to make more money.
5) Usmanov has a formal contractual relationship with said club and provides funds to them in exchange for sponsorship.
6) The BBC have alleged he is behind the spending at Everton. Nobody has been sued (as yet) for the program. Moshiri has also stated "they do everything together" when point 5 occurred.

None of this means "Usmanov is selling at Arsenal to buy Everton". There is probably a list of points you can make that might pour water on that theory. However each of the 6 points above would all be generally accepted and certainly hint at a wider narrative. Each can be challenged in their own right, but taken as a collective it is quite compelling evidence.

And he is so grumpy at Kroenke that buying Everton and funding thrm to kick the Arse further down the table ... seems suibtable cat stroking oligarch behaviour

 

[Gordon Lee's Cushion]

I am totally convinced Usmanov will throw his money into Everton once he has disposed of his Arsenal share. Moshiri is the advance team, and despite a few setbacks things look to be going forward and proper plans set in place.

Some of us might scratch our heads a little at how we might fund the extra cash for BM (on top of the council loan) but it all makes sense when you add Usmanov to the mix.

We are a very good investment, some might disagree but look around, we've so many areas untapped and a lot of development to do. A new larger fit for purpose stadium won't win us trophies but it will enable us as a club to tap into the millions we currently can not.

Usmanov wants control and he wants success, we're not a million miles away from Chelsea when Abramovich took over. The landscape may have changed a little since then and any impact would not be as large, it would mean wresting a top four place and decent runs in Europe.

The future right now as a blue is about to get a lot brighter, we have much to look forward to. Even now as I type this we seem a million miles away from the darkness under Allardyce, and it was only a few months ago. Top four take note, we're on our way back and this time we intend to remain at the top.

 

[b-rad]

Usmanov wants control and he wants success, we're not a million miles away from Chelsea when Abramovich took over. The landscape may have changed a little since then and any impact would not be as large, it would mean wresting a top four place and decent runs in Europe.

Chelsea were in the top 6 for 7 straight seasons before Abramovich. Not challenging for titles, admittedly, but they had a far smaller jump to get there than we would have now.

 

[Gordon Lee's Cushion]

Chelsea were in the top 6 for 7 straight seasons before Abramovich. Not challenging for titles, admittedly, but they had a far smaller jump to get there than we would have now.

Like I said, the landscape has changed, but there's even more money at the top than there was then from TV and sponsorships. The 'top' as I refer to it is the new 'top' which is top 4, which is where I believe Usmanov's money will take us. We have to be sensible because City have unlimited funds and seem to be able to create ways to magic them up without being penalised by FFP. So we'd always be at least a step behind them, but being in the leading pack is where we need to be and with Usmanov's cash we can be.

I wouldn't put too much worry into the apparent political harassment of Russian oligarchs, we get our gas from Russia and the posturing from the government is nothing but hot air, for all the shouting and threats not much if anything has actually been done. Once the public loses interest in the story all will go back to normal.

 

[Brisan123]

I think both motives exist. There is a lot to be said not just for the profile/ego but also the security that would come from being involved at a football club. It also generates a lot of power within a certain region (much less so in England than Russia to be fair) and influence on decisions in said area. So there is an altruism.

That being said I agree he's primarily a business man. Everton remains a massively under developed asset. It is the one club formally of the top 5 of the PL not to be monetised properly. It has a unique and compelling brand as well as a very loyal set of supporters. Any investor would see enormous potential there.

Alongside that, the city of Liverpool remains a bit of an untapped resource. You have a Mayor who is very keen to facilitate his investors but also the opportunity to buy land and property at a price that is significantly below London but also some of the rival cities in the North. You also have a water front which is world famous and different agencies looking to poor money in. Liverpool is already growing but with strategic investment that will continue to grow at a higher pace.

It's really not difficult to see, what an investor sees in the project. Look at Canary Wharf 20 years ago. Imagine if you owned numerous properties there now, as well as having a 55k stadium there, a PL team in that area and be known as the person who kick started it.

Your last paragraph has long been the reason I and others believe Moshiri got involved and where Moshiri is involved Usmanov is there either openly or in the shadows

 

[roydo]

Your last paragraph has long been the reason I and others believe Moshiri got involved and where Moshiri is involved Usmanov is there either openly or in the shadows

And ever since that band of brothers chanced on that scenario, what, about a month after the BMD thing broke, pretty much every small piece of news has done nothing but confirm we have been somewhere in the ballpark since then.

edit. Not saying we will win the internet or anything, and we could well be totally wrong in the end. But the dots just keep appearing and its easier and easier to join them.

 

[Brisan123]

And ever since that band of brothers chanced on that scenario, what, about a month after the BMD thing broke, pretty much every small piece of news has done nothing but confirm we have been somewhere in the ballpark since then.

edit. Not saying we will win the internet or anything, and we could well be totally wrong in the end. But the dots just keep appearing and its easier and easier to join them.

A stroll down Dublin Docklands , the Docks at NYC, the docks at San Diego and as stated Canary Whatf tells me where the real money is
The co owners of the Liver building did not pick it as their first venture into Britian on a whim and Usmanov owns a major property company in Moscow which owns / runs the Olympic village
These lads are here for the money and the ego trip

 

[Toffeelover]

What I think it is reasonable to say:
1) Usmanov has always stated his desire to run a football club
2) He has been unable to do so at Arsenal, that looks like it will always be the case. In order to do this he would need to leave. That point seems to be increasingly acknowledged by his people.
3) His business associate has a majority interest at a PL football club. There are agreements in place to purchase more shares. There is capital needed to kick start an infrastructure project that will return enormous values.
4) Usmanov invests in company's with potential to make more money.
5) Usmanov has a formal contractual relationship with said club and provides funds to them in exchange for sponsorship.
6) The BBC hav aeellegd he is behind the spending at Everton. Nobody has been sued (as yet) for the program. Moshiri has also stated "they do everything together" when point 5 occurred.

None of this means "Usmanov is selling at Arsenal to buy Everton". There is probably a list of points you can make that might pour water on that theory. However each of the 6 points above would all be generally accepted and certainly hint at a wider narrative. Each can be challenged in their own right, but taken as a collective it is quite compelling evidence.

When was that broadcast?