Usmanov

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Moshiri works for Usmanov
The vast majority of Moshiri’s wealth has come from Usmanov
Usmanov bought Moshiri’s shares to allow him to invest in Everton
If Usmanov decides he wants a controlling stake in Everton Moshiri will have problem with this
In fact I’d say that was the plan B all along , if the Arsenal thing did not work out , which it hasn’t

To add to this, Usmanov has never wanted to control a club from top to bottom. He didn't want that at Arsenal. He wanted to be able to have a representative at board level. Moshiri did much the same with Ryzanstev. If he has board representation (which he would have at Everton) he would be happy.
 

He was Director of the Uzbek Foreign Econimic Association in the late 1970s.

Are you realy building up a case of for the defence for this feller?

Staggering.

Care to quote where you found out this information please Dave, thanks.

Because in the 1970s I'm.ptetty certain it would have been called Soviet rather than Uzbek and also certain he would have been a russian appointment rather than a chosen crony of s Uzbek president as you try to insinuate.
 
One thing I would say mate that if Usmanov was content to play an indirect role, he could have stayed at Arsenal. Other than a huge return on his investment, he made it plain often enough his dissatisfaction with the general direction at Arsenal, and was critical at what he saw as their overtly prudent spending. If he loved the club, he could have contributed to the transfer kitty without a quid pro quo but people like him don't work like that. I can totally understand it, it would have been completely illogical for him to effectively act as a charity to Arsenal whilst Kroenke has all the control.

I can't see his friendship with Moshiri running so deeply that he would just be willing to bankroll Everton's success whilst someone elses name is on the door, even if that person is Moshiri. I think he wants both control and recognition, and to be seen as "the man" if he is to make another investment. Moshiri may be able to co-exist as a partner in that scenario, but I find it hard to countenance any set of circumstances beyond which we would be seen as Usmanovs club, and under his ownership, and control, if he were to invest along the scale that many are hoping for.

I think that is a logical conclusion but I don't think is wholly consistent. At Arsenal what he has really wanted is an input, representation at board level etc. He would be given that at Everton.

There is strong evidence of wealthy Russian owners being in the background in football. The reasons for this may be multiple. It would also be worth noting, that in the circles he mixes people would be aware of who is bankrolling Everton and I imagine that would be what is most important to him and his business.

Or alternatively he could come in as the main man. Frankly I do not see Moshiri stopping him doing so if he really wanted too, even if he was unhappy happy about it (why would you jeopardise such a relationship over something that is quite petty?). I don't see that though, I think Moshiri is a much cleaner face as the main man. I also think every option will have been discussed before Moshiri ventured to Everton, so the idea that they are making it up as they go I can't imagine is true.

My own gut feeling, is that Usmanov will by into a holding company. I think they will use debt being converted as equity as an efficient way to navigate FFP rules and adjust the %'s to how they like. I also think they will look to bring 3rd party funding on board, possibly other wealthy Russians, possibly Chinese investment, possibly some of the consortiums close to Moshiri who helped purchase the Liver Building. They will be minority shareholders but have representation at board level, and again the cycle of debt converted to equity will be used to allow the football club to spend substantially while financing a stadium.
 
I know I am taking over the thread somewhat. Some (hopefully) final thoughts for today (in terms of longer analysis) is that the pattern of movement/momemtum is now heavily towards him investing. With each week that goes by there is more suggesting he is looking to come.

The Bloomberg thing is fascinating. It is a proper paper of international capital. It holds more weight than the entirety of football journalists denying it. Not because football journalists aren't well sourced but it's not their area. After the FT report, very shortly after this moment the shares were gone. Other "football people" (albeit a minority as most of them parroted the idea that he'd never sell) did suggest he would sell, in the same way but nothing followed as it doesn't hold the same clout. Bloomberg holds similar clout. Him saying he'd invest in Everton is important.

How this investment looks may not be conventional. I am not sure he has much interest in being a public face like Abramovic or even Sheikh Monsour. If he came I think he'd happily be in the background, watch his asset grow. As has been said all along he will own prime real estate and I do think their intention is to bring capital into the area of Liverpool to transform it into something equivalent (or bigger) than what you see around L1. To His credit the Major seems on board with the project. Billions could be poured in. As the point depreciates tourist revenues will become a much bigger sector and Liverpool has a big opportunity and a unique history.

As a closing salvo I would also not rule out further wealthy individuals coming on board post Usmanov. The likelihood is USM will be the shareholders if Usmanov came on board, it's worth noting the S in that is a gentleman who has more reserves of cash than Abramovic. It is a serious outfit. I think they may look for either other Russian investment, maybe the fabled Chinese investment (that Wolves have for example) or maybe a consortium like the one Moshiri was involved with for the Liver buildings. We already have a relationship with the wealthiest bank in China.

In the short term it will allow us the chance to convert debt to equity which is an efficient way of re-allocating shares which will also generate substantial ongoing revenue for the club. In the medium term bringing such people on board allows for more expertise, connections and opportunities to emerge. Both Usmanov/Moshiri seem to value this. Neither seem the hands on dictatorial style in approach.
 
I think that is a logical conclusion but I don't think is wholly consistent. At Arsenal what he has really wanted is an input, representation at board level etc. He would be given that at Everton.

There is strong evidence of wealthy Russian owners being in the background in football. The reasons for this may be multiple. It would also be worth noting, that in the circles he mixes people would be aware of who is bankrolling Everton and I imagine that would be what is most important to him and his business.

Or alternatively he could come in as the main man. Frankly I do not see Moshiri stopping him doing so if he really wanted too, even if he was unhappy happy about it (why would you jeopardise such a relationship over something that is quite petty?). I don't see that though, I think Moshiri is a much cleaner face as the main man. I also think every option will have been discussed before Moshiri ventured to Everton, so the idea that they are making it up as they go I can't imagine is true.

My own gut feeling, is that Usmanov will by into a holding company. I think they will use debt being converted as equity as an efficient way to navigate FFP rules and adjust the %'s to how they like. I also think they will look to bring 3rd party funding on board, possibly other wealthy Russians, possibly Chinese investment, possibly some of the consortiums close to Moshiri who helped purchase the Liver Building. They will be minority shareholders but have representation at board level, and again the cycle of debt converted to equity will be used to allow the football club to spend substantially while financing a stadium.

I think we are coming to the same conclusion via different routes. I would see it much like that at Chelsea, they may have a Chairman/CEO and a senior executive team to face the operation, but I'm sure nothing critical is decided without the nod from Abramovich. He is in the background for sure, but everyone knows who the don is.
 

I think we are coming to the same conclusion via different routes. I would see it much like that at Chelsea, they may have a Chairman/CEO and a senior executive team to face the operation, but I'm sure nothing critical is decided without the nod from Abramovich. He is in the background for sure, but everyone knows who the don is.

I think thats right mate. Abramovic wanted to be seen as the main man initially but quickly sussed out that was more of a hindrance. He has tried to blend into the background more.
 
The Esk gets a hard wrap because of people largely wanting binary conclusions. Either someone is lying or someone is the fountain of all knowledge. The truth is most people fall between that. Deals break down all the time, it's easy to see in hindsight how Mata's/Witsels legal team ran rings around Walsh/Koeman and that Moshiri was taken in by big name players without fully evaluating the risks. Alongside that he would have been reckless in allowing information to be fed out via his people. That seems a far more likely scenario than an Evertonian risks his hard earned reputation to lie to fans. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course but thats mine.

His podcast he does is very good and I enjoy his writing.

That being said, while he has always made good points re Usmanov and undoubtedly has more access to information than I have ever had (I have no inside information so thats true of anyone) I think he's been a bit awry on that issue from the start.

I have read his latest two articles you mention. Both make good points but there are important pieces of context missing. His second article seems to focus on making a case for him not becoming a shareholder. He then suggests that he wouldn't have to be a shareholder to either be formally or informally involved. It kind of answers his own question. He doesn't need to formally buy shares and he can funnel money in via a holding company (which was the plan at Arsenal and consistent with how many Russian owners operate). For lots of reasons this would make a lot more sense than him being formally listed.

I also disagree with his interpretation of the words. The analysis is too literal, very few people will say explicitly what they intend to do, but him saying "I am happy to help (everton)" is a massive statement. This coming days after media outlets tell us he has no interest in Everton. His position that "if he needs support" is the critical caveat over making the first part invalid I find unusual as well. It has been widely noted, not least from the Esk himself that the club needs investment and that financial circumstances has made that harder for Moshiri that it was 2 years ago. If Everton are to become what Moshiri promised it is very likely he needs support, especially at the current moment in time.

The other article about where the funding is coming from for the summer appeared to me to kick the problem down the curb for 12 months rather than fundamentally solving the question. The Esk produced a number of informative articles suggesting that Everton would struggle to compete financially and I know privately he felt it would be a real challenge (he's also privately stated things that have turned out to be true). At a critical point of the window we just start going mad with signings and it is dotted around the Usmanov sale from Arsenal who has said he is "happy to help". His position is we found funds but will need the austere summer next season. If a wealthy investor is not making money available that would be true, however I simply don't believe that will be the case as it hasn't been for 3 years.

The final interesting point he has made in the articles is that Moshiri has the ability to find alternative solutions to funds (I think he referenced the company who are behind the Liver Building purchase). I think this is a really good point. Mossier clearly has connections to wealth and capital that goes beyond Usmanov. My suspicion is that it's not an either/or though and we may see both of those options being true.

So yes, I think the Esk's contributions should be read and they are interesting. He clearly has good information from close to Moshiri but sometimes people can be a bit too close to see whats happening outside of that. As with anyone else he has the right to his view which is always eloquently presented, however my interpretation of the information thats in the public domain is that it is far more consistent with Usmanov coming on board than not.

Far too kind on him mate, the world is full of people who everyone says where nice guys who are proven to be anything from chancers, bullshtters to ones just trying to get something out of what they say.

Esk would have made a great politician btw, he speaks constantly with conviction, if ires any counter argument with the attitude of "I know better", and when he gets found out and show up he simply just moved the goalposts without any hint of shame.

Over the years there's been some right nobs on here, fir my mind esk is one of the first as he was a mod when he did it, when he got shown up he ran away to start up a pod with his new found quasi celebrity status and ingratiated himself with various pond life of the Everton twitterverse like Dave downie etc


Utter chancer who because he was a mod, and knew business jargon thought he was something.

It'd actually be incredibly hard to actually deliberately get as much wrong as that bloke has over the past two years.
 
No mate. He’s not clueless. But he guesses and dresses up his guesses as if they were fact, when they are not. He has no more insider knowledge or experience of footballing matters than many of the folk on here. He understands a balance sheet, again as many on here do, but again he ‘predicts’ based on no other knowledge other than his own opinion. Even in the current piece that you posted he refers to the projections of the previous CEO ‘and his own’ as if suggesting that his numbers based on no inside information whatsoever, other than that in the public domain, carry the same weight as those of a fully informed CEO. He did exactly the same with transfers and ‘models of the new ground’, and many on here were fooled into thinking that he actually knew, when he patently didn’t. I like Esk, I used to like arguing with him, but he does have an unfortunate habit of projecting guesses as if they were fact, and almost universally getting them wrong. No one outside of the Everton Board and the two M’s really has a clue, one or two may pick up on the odd titbits, but really no one should pretend they have some special knowledge and that’s why many on here just disregard any ‘ITK’........

My opinion of esk is above mate, me and you dont tend to agree on much but do on this score.
 

Moshiri works for Usmanov
The vast majority of Moshiri’s wealth has come from Usmanov
Usmanov bought Moshiri’s shares to allow him to invest in Everton
If Usmanov decides he wants a controlling stake in Everton Moshiri will have problem with this
In fact I’d say that was the plan B all along , if the Arsenal thing did not work out , which it hasn’t

Which is the educated guess some of us made right at the start.
 
I take a simple view of all this. We desperately need someone for an additional 200-250m for the stadium to make up the council loan shortfall.

We’ll also need naming rights to financially make it work. We’ll also need to buy a lot of steel.

Our major shareholder’s best mate, who he’s worked with for decades, has just unentangled himself from another premier league club, so has an extra c500m to his fortune and owns a steel company which already sponsors our training ground via naming rights.

Is it overly simplistic to make those connections and think some sort of arrangement will be struck?
 
Care to quote where you found out this information please Dave, thanks.

Because in the 1970s I'm.ptetty certain it would have been called Soviet rather than Uzbek and also certain he would have been a russian appointment rather than a chosen crony of s Uzbek president as you try to insinuate.
ohshit.gif
 
The FBI's remit goes well beyond that in reality though mate.

The FBI s remit and power does not come close to being able to so called take down one of the richest me in the world, the second richest in Britain. One who is either owner or a significant power in multiple massive russian and global companies including social media, internet, press and telecoms mate, throw in he's probably one of the most connected and protected people close to Putin. Not a chance in hell
 
I’ve got a feeling even if Usmanov doesn’t invest directly he will provide the backing for the stadium, loan us £500m and charge us £35m a year for 20 years
 

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