Usmanov

[peteblue]

It's his opinion. He doesn't present it as fact. He argues his position is right, but that isn't the same as saying 'this is defo the case, it will all happen this way'. He never presents his views in that manner.

TBH, I think it;s been shocking how the esk has been treated and (mis)represented...and that's from someone who has more than once argued against him and the line he takes.

Perhaps, and if he said ‘I have no inside knowledge but this is my opinion’ that would be fine.......anyway this is about Usmanov not Esk........

 

[Nymzee]

#UsmanovIsntOurs

 

[royalblue66]

#UsmanovIsntOurs

Ok Dave.

 

[Nymzee]

Ok Dave.

You didn’t get my joke did you.

 

[The binman chronicles]

It has been widely noted, not least from the Esk himself that the club needs investment and that financial circumstances has made that harder for Moshiri that it was 2 years ago. If Everton are to become what Moshiri promised it is very likely he needs support, especially at the current moment in time.

This is the thing I'm sure Moshiri has said he is open to other investors coming on board, so why would he stop one of the richest men in the world that he knows very well and calls a friend and has probably chatted about what they would do together if they owned a club outright back in their Arsenal days. The logic does not compute why he would turn around and say 'no mate we don't need you here'.

 

[royalblue66]

You didn’t get my joke did you.

No,

 

[Connor]

#UsmanovIsntOurs

#OnlyAMataOfTime

 

[Nymzee]

No,

Well what happened when #WitselIsOurs was said?

Hint: He plays for Borussia Dortmund now.

 

[Thomasc]

Just a point here.

Nobody had a clue we were signing Bernard, Gomes or Zouma right until the last minute.

Why does anybody actually think that anybody on the outside would have any insight into something as huge as this?

Keeps people talking though I suppose.

 

[brieverton]

The Esk gets a hard wrap because of people largely wanting binary conclusions. Either someone is lying or someone is the fountain of all knowledge. The truth is most people fall between that. Deals break down all the time, it's easy to see in hindsight how Mata's/Witsels legal team ran rings around Walsh/Koeman and that Moshiri was taken in by big name players without fully evaluating the risks. Alongside that he would have been reckless in allowing information to be fed out via his people. That seems a far more likely scenario than an Evertonian risks his hard earned reputation to lie to fans. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course but thats mine.

His podcast he does is very good and I enjoy his writing.

That being said, while he has always made good points re Usmanov and undoubtedly has more access to information than I have ever had (I have no inside information so thats true of anyone) I think he's been a bit awry on that issue from the start.

I have read his latest two articles you mention. Both make good points but there are important pieces of context missing. His second article seems to focus on making a case for him not becoming a shareholder. He then suggests that he wouldn't have to be a shareholder to either be formally or informally involved. It kind of answers his own question. He doesn't need to formally buy shares and he can funnel money in via a holding company (which was the plan at Arsenal and consistent with how many Russian owners operate). For lots of reasons this would make a lot more sense than him being formally listed.

I also disagree with his interpretation of the words. The analysis is too literal, very few people will say explicitly what they intend to do, but him saying "I am happy to help (everton)" is a massive statement. This coming days after media outlets tell us he has no interest in Everton. His position that "if he needs support" is the critical caveat over making the first part invalid I find unusual as well. It has been widely noted, not least from the Esk himself that the club needs investment and that financial circumstances has made that harder for Moshiri that it was 2 years ago. If Everton are to become what Moshiri promised it is very likely he needs support, especially at the current moment in time.

The other article about where the funding is coming from for the summer appeared to me to kick the problem down the curb for 12 months rather than fundamentally solving the question. The Esk produced a number of informative articles suggesting that Everton would struggle to compete financially and I know privately he felt it would be a real challenge (he's also privately stated things that have turned out to be true). At a critical point of the window we just start going mad with signings and it is dotted around the Usmanov sale from Arsenal who has said he is "happy to help". His position is we found funds but will need the austere summer next season. If a wealthy investor is not making money available that would be true, however I simply don't believe that will be the case as it hasn't been for 3 years.

The final interesting point he has made in the articles is that Moshiri has the ability to find alternative solutions to funds (I think he referenced the company who are behind the Liver Building purchase). I think this is a really good point. Mossier clearly has connections to wealth and capital that goes beyond Usmanov. My suspicion is that it's not an either/or though and we may see both of those options being true.

So yes, I think the Esk's contributions should be read and they are interesting. He clearly has good information from close to Moshiri but sometimes people can be a bit too close to see whats happening outside of that. As with anyone else he has the right to his view which is always eloquently presented, however my interpretation of the information thats in the public domain is that it is far more consistent with Usmanov coming on board than not.

One thing I would say mate that if Usmanov was content to play an indirect role, he could have stayed at Arsenal. Other than a huge return on his investment, he made it plain often enough his dissatisfaction with the general direction at Arsenal, and was critical at what he saw as their overtly prudent spending. If he loved the club, he could have contributed to the transfer kitty without a quid pro quo but people like him don't work like that. I can totally understand it, it would have been completely illogical for him to effectively act as a charity to Arsenal whilst Kroenke has all the control.

I can't see his friendship with Moshiri running so deeply that he would just be willing to bankroll Everton's success whilst someone elses name is on the door, even if that person is Moshiri. I think he wants both control and recognition, and to be seen as "the man" if he is to make another investment. Moshiri may be able to co-exist as a partner in that scenario, but I find it hard to countenance any set of circumstances beyond which we would be seen as Usmanovs club, and under his ownership, and control, if he were to invest along the scale that many are hoping for.

 

[catcherintherye]

For a man who would be careful with words and aware of their impact, Usmanovs comments to Bloomberg surely have significance for us. But if something big were to transpire, I think it would not be any time soon. Nothing happens without twists and turns.

I get that Everton is Moshiri's project and chance to achive something from out of Usmanov's shadow, but I wouldn't buy into talk of shadow investment / silent partnership. If he was to pitch up here and contribute significant sums of money, then he would only do so as I see it replacing Moshiri as majority shareholder / de facto owner. If Moshiri's ego is not modest enough to accomodate that, then perhaps Usmanov would just feel it best to let his friend and associate get on with things himself.

I don't like the massive money in football and the way the game has gone, but I have to say if Usmanov is willing to invest here, it would be perhaps our only opportunity missed to compete with the elite.

I think you are absolutely right that bloomberg interview is significant. As I said about 4 weeks ago re the FT when he let it be known he contemplated selling and would sell within a matter of days this is a message delivered to a news outlet that speaks to international and American capital. Forget "well sourced" football journalists, this is far more important. It should also be noted, that after the FT interview, sections of people who saw nothing in it rubbish the claims as well as Kopites.

I am by no means having a pop at you here mate, but the "Moshiri wants to go it alone at Everton" I think has become the new thing for the nay sayers to unite around. We have had "Usmanov will never sell Arsenal": "Nobody would be interested in buying his shares"; "Kroenke would never buy his shares as he knows it would empower him to build a rival club" "He's going to go to Ac Milan" (which has been distanced from sources close to him) to "he has no interest in buying into Everton". Every one of the above has been categorically proven untrue. Yet the goalposts seem to be moved on each occasion and a new problem that is supposedly unresolvable gets added in.

To my knowledge I cannot think of a single statement from Moshiri that has ever indicated, suggested or stated that buying Everton was his big opportunity to break with Usmanov and do his own thing. The only statement I have seen from Moshiri in relation to Usmanov has been when he said "we do everything together" having sat at games with him, been seen publicly with him and having just secured a financial agreement with him. I think this idea that he wants to go it alone is an invention, possibly to put the PL off investigating the links further (and government agencies).

Moshiri has not only stated he does everything together with Usmanov but has also stated he wants to make Everton the best club it can be and that "money will never be an object". Forget all of the long history between the pair it would be highly illogical and inconsistent with how top Billionaires operate (never mind Moshiri who has made his name doing this) that he would not explore the option of bringing additional revenues into the club. There is very little downside to this and will likely lead to his equity in the club accruing value.

Not only does it have any precedence for him to want to go it alone but when you work a closely as he does to Usmanov and have the nature of the relationship they have it would be highly unusual for him to deny Usmanov something he wanted on the basis of him wanting to run the club. It would be a silly hill to die on (even if it were the case). Billionaires don't become billionaires by making such short sighted decisions. Even if AU comes on board, the likelihood is Moshiri could remain the biggest shareholder or the face of the business. This could easily be the leading role he ascribes to himself.

So yes I'm not having a dig at you mate, but the "Moshiri wants to go it alone" I think is one of the more problematic and desperate reasons for people trying to find for Usmanov not investing.

 

[Brisan123]

"Any deal would have to allow the 64-year old an element of personal influence over operations and management"

Is a very telling quote, meaning any deal to get such influence is likely to involve the purchase of a significant block of shares.

if he decides on investing in a club, and if he sees the premier league rather than serie a or elsewhere in Europe as the best place for a return, then he's likely to invest here in Everton.

In order to get personal influence over 'operations and management' and not end up with the 'Arsenal' situation of a minority shareholding but no influence, he will have to build a stake large enough to do so. A large investment is needed.

it may be that he takes a smaller stake at first, with an agreement with his friend Farhad to buy his later, or he may only take a minority holding. Either way he'll need that holding to be a majority stake in combination with his friend Farhad and large enough that not even Farhad can do anything without his agreement.

It seems naive of some to think this highly unlikely as his words seem to indicate its definitely one of the possibilities he's seriously looking at. If he invests he's not likely to do it in a small way. The only way that might happen is he decides against the premier league and decides to invest in a club in the bundesliga or serie a and only invests here through Farhad or their shared company.

The premier league though does seem to me where the riches are and the place where the foreign multi billionaire's and oil rich sheiks flock to.

I don't for one minute not respect the esk's knowledge on financial matters or think he isn't giving his best view on the current situation and likely future plans and prospects, but he is human and can like all of us get things wrong, or it works out quite differently.

There are not just geopolitical factors as you term them at work here, its the frustration of owning such a large shareholding in Arsenal with no prospect at all of any influence. Its this latter fact that's always been the primary motive.

I'm afraid the Usmanov situation has been widely speculated on by other commentators in the national and financial press, to dismiss the possibility of large investment here is just wrong imo as it is very possible and under consideration.

Moshiri works for Usmanov
The vast majority of Moshiri’s wealth has come from Usmanov
Usmanov bought Moshiri’s shares to allow him to invest in Everton
If Usmanov decides he wants a controlling stake in Everton Moshiri will have problem with this
In fact I’d say that was the plan B all along , if the Arsenal thing did not work out , which it hasn’t

 

[catcherintherye]

Just a point here.

Nobody had a clue we were signing Bernard, Gomes or Zouma right until the last minute.

Why does anybody actually think that anybody on the outside would have any insight into something as huge as this?

Keeps people talking though I suppose.

Usmanov will not have the information leaked by football journalists. It really is as simple as that.

 

[catcherintherye]

Shame that you seem to not realise that the FBI is an internal us agency mate, did you mean cia which is the agency which is used for external Influence?

The FBI's remit goes well beyond that in reality though mate.

 

[Stav1985]

#OnlyAMataOfTime

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