2017/18 Tom Davies

[catcherintherye]

I think people have to be realistic about Davies. He played yesterday against 3 seasoned internationals, including the England captain. He played alongside two seasoned internationals including arguably Englands most decorated player. While he did not dominate the game yesterday, he didn't look out of place in that company which is a fine achievement at 19.

I thought he did/does two things well. Firstly the pressing and energy to get around the pitch massively helps us. The few moments we executed a high press it was with him helping Tosun. In general he covers ground well and it doesn't surprise me that we win more games with him playing than not, as he allows others to do their job better.

The best move of the game, and one which would have not been out of place with "peak" Peinaar and Baines was when we got Baines in down the left hand side and very nearly scored. If you watch Davies there, the way he holds the ball, turns, sees the pass, waits to deliver then times the weight of it perfectly was fantastic. It's not the only time he has done this and bodes well for the future.

He has both sides to his game for me. He can press and tackle players but also has the ability of an Osman/Peinaar in the final third. We currently only see flashes of both at the moment, but he remains young and as he becomes more experienced his challenge will be to begin to replicate both aspects of the game more consistently and more often. The hope is he can become a midfield player who can perfect the high energy/pressing style of a James McCarthy alongside the quality and composure in the final third of an Osman/Peinaar. Given his age and performances to date I see no reason why he cannot continue to this trajectory with the right management.

I fully understand he has given more balls away this season. part of this is because he is trying to pass forward. Another important aspect though is the quality and chemistry of the team has greatly struggled. I remember Peter Beardsley used to give the ball away a lot, not because he was a poor player but people weren't on his wavelength. If a knew coach can continue to integrate systems of play with Tosun/Walcott (and possibly Bolasie) alongside maybe bringing on the liked of Lookman, Calvert Lewin and Dowell the quality ahead of him will turn some of the balls that are currently being given away into goals (like Lukaku did last season).

 

[Barnfred 55]

I think people have to be realistic about Davies. He played yesterday against 3 seasoned internationals, including the England captain. He played alongside two seasoned internationals including arguably Englands most decorated player. While he did not dominate the game yesterday, he didn't look out of place in that company which is a fine achievement at 19.

I thought he did/does two things well. Firstly the pressing and energy to get around the pitch massively helps us. The few moments we executed a high press it was with him helping Tosun. In general he covers ground well and it doesn't surprise me that we win more games with him playing than not, as he allows others to do their job better.

The best move of the game, and one which would have not been out of place with "peak" Peinaar and Baines was when we got Baines in down the left hand side and very nearly scored. If you watch Davies there, the way he holds the ball, turns, sees the pass, waits to deliver then times the weight of it perfectly was fantastic. It's not the only time he has done this and bodes well for the future.

He has both sides to his game for me. He can press and tackle players but also has the ability of an Osman/Peinaar in the final third. We currently only see flashes of both at the moment, but he remains young and as he becomes more experienced his challenge will be to begin to replicate both aspects of the game more consistently and more often. The hope is he can become a midfield player who can perfect the high energy/pressing style of a James McCarthy alongside the quality and composure in the final third of an Osman/Peinaar. Given his age and performances to date I see no reason why he cannot continue to this trajectory with the right management.

I fully understand he has given more balls away this season. part of this is because he is trying to pass forward. Another important aspect though is the quality and chemistry of the team has greatly struggled. I remember Peter Beardsley used to give the ball away a lot, not because he was a poor player but people weren't on his wavelength. If a knew coach can continue to integrate systems of play with Tosun/Walcott (and possibly Bolasie) alongside maybe bringing on the liked of Lookman, Calvert Lewin and Dowell the quality ahead of him will turn some of the balls that are currently being given away into goals (like Lukaku did last season).

Good post mate.

Because he's still only a teenager, people automatically expect an improvement each year, and because we haven't seen one this year they see him as having regressed. He certainly hasn't been as influential that's for sure, although I agree with you that a lot of his good work does go unnoticed. I put that down to a number of issues, not least of which is the way the team has been performing this season, and the lack of options open to him in front of play. Plus he's still a kid and his body is still developing, and most fans don't appreciate the effect this can have on a players form. Also, and this is something I have written countless times on here, he has probably played in 95% of the games since he established himself last January. 55 premier and 66 senior appearances in total, is a ridiculous amount of games for a teenager to play in such a short period, especially in what is considered to be the hardest league in world football. He should have been rotated/rested far more often than he has. Unlike with DCL, we have had alternatives with the likes of Baningime and Klaassen.

Hopefully we will bring in better options in midfield for the new season and our new manager will use him more sparingly. There's a lot more to come from the lad yet I think. Certainly wouldn't even dream of sending him to the championship on loan next season, which most in here seem to be advocating.

 

[Toffeelover]

He needs a better manager to bring him up to speed.

 

[Big Fat Sam]

He's crap. Either loan out to give him a chance to get his act together or get rid.

 

[orly]

@catcherintherye

Davies has the ability of Pienaar in the final third?!?!?!

Bed, right now. No dinner.

 

[Pabbers]

Beats blind optimism towards a lad who right now is nowhere near good enough. Would be great to see him turn it around because he obviously loves the club but so much improvement is needed.

Stupid comment.

He is one of probably 20 players not been good enough.....form has to be better. Yet its the 19 year old that is not good enough!!

Context is needed, cant just get rid of every player not in form. The issue is the man and people that is in charge if getting the best out of these players.

 

[everton1953]

Another one of those is he good enough players. He is useless as a goal threat and passes poorly. He has bags of energy but usually runs out of it by 60 minutes. He is only 19 etc etc. Maybe his exposure to so much football so soon will benefit him in the longer term. Maybe he will always lack the overall ability required at the top level. If we had a good team he would not be in it, but maybe on loan somewhere in the Championship.

 

[Trout Masked Replica]

Far bigger problems to solve than Davies. He makes the team better, just a shame that there are more experienced one dimensional players on higher wages playing alongside him.

 

[David09]

I think people have to be realistic about Davies. He played yesterday against 3 seasoned internationals, including the England captain. He played alongside two seasoned internationals including arguably Englands most decorated player. While he did not dominate the game yesterday, he didn't look out of place in that company which is a fine achievement at 19.

I thought he did/does two things well. Firstly the pressing and energy to get around the pitch massively helps us. The few moments we executed a high press it was with him helping Tosun. In general he covers ground well and it doesn't surprise me that we win more games with him playing than not, as he allows others to do their job better.

The best move of the game, and one which would have not been out of place with "peak" Peinaar and Baines was when we got Baines in down the left hand side and very nearly scored. If you watch Davies there, the way he holds the ball, turns, sees the pass, waits to deliver then times the weight of it perfectly was fantastic. It's not the only time he has done this and bodes well for the future.

He has both sides to his game for me. He can press and tackle players but also has the ability of an Osman/Peinaar in the final third. We currently only see flashes of both at the moment, but he remains young and as he becomes more experienced his challenge will be to begin to replicate both aspects of the game more consistently and more often. The hope is he can become a midfield player who can perfect the high energy/pressing style of a James McCarthy alongside the quality and composure in the final third of an Osman/Peinaar. Given his age and performances to date I see no reason why he cannot continue to this trajectory with the right management.

I fully understand he has given more balls away this season. part of this is because he is trying to pass forward. Another important aspect though is the quality and chemistry of the team has greatly struggled. I remember Peter Beardsley used to give the ball away a lot, not because he was a poor player but people weren't on his wavelength. If a knew coach can continue to integrate systems of play with Tosun/Walcott (and possibly Bolasie) alongside maybe bringing on the liked of Lookman, Calvert Lewin and Dowell the quality ahead of him will turn some of the balls that are currently being given away into goals (like Lukaku did last season).

What's the point in having a midfielder who can't complete even the simplistic pass? Also he can't tackle. Football has moved on from headless chickens running round the pitch.

 

[catcherintherye]

What's the point in having a midfielder who can't complete even the simplistic pass? Also he can't tackle. Football has moved on from headless chickens running round the pitch.

I think he can complete passes and tackle though mate.

 

[catcherintherye]

@catcherintherye

Davies has the ability of Pienaar in the final third?!?!?!

Bed, right now. No dinner.

Thats not entirely what I said mate. His role in the move that got Baines in down the left was reminiscent of Peinaar. I would say he has the potential to emulate the ability of Osman/Peinaar in that area if he continues to improve. How good were either of those as teenagers?

 

[Raino85]

@catcherintherye

Davies has the ability of Pienaar in the final third?!?!?!

Bed, right now. No dinner.

I can actually see were he is coming from a little.
Twice on Saturday davies tried 2 forward pass which didn't reach its intended target. Every other player on the pitch would of gone for a simple pass to the side or gone back. Now were the forward pass is not always necessarily the correct option, Saturday, it needed someone to try and be abit brave, Tom did that, then got berated for it, what did he do with his next pass? Little through ball to Baines!
People tend to forget, Pienaar was roundly crisscrossed all the time in his playing days for doing to much, trying impossible balls etc, but now that memory is gone, and all we do is say "he was ace pienaar e"

 

[orly]

Thats not entirely what I said mate. His role in the move that got Baines in down the left was reminiscent of Peinaar. I would say he has the potential to emulate the ability of Osman/Peinaar in that area if he continues to improve. How good were either of those as teenagers?

It is mate,

He has both sides to his game for me. He can press and tackle players but also has the ability of an Osman/Peinaar in the final third.

'has the ability of an Osman / Peinaar [sic] in the final third'. 'Has' - currently in possession of. He doesn't.

 

[catcherintherye]

It is mate,



'has the ability of an Osman / Peinaar [sic] in the final third'. 'Has' - currently in possession of. He doesn't.

Fair enough, I qualified that underneath by saying he lacks the consistency currently. In flashes, like yesterday, or the assist last season for Lukaku he resembled an Osman player, but he needs to improve his consistency.

My view is that he is not at the standard of Osman/Peinaar in the final third, though he he the potential too.

 

[catcherintherye]

I can actually see were he is coming from a little.
Twice on Saturday davies tried 2 forward pass which didn't reach its intended target. Every other player on the pitch would of gone for a simple pass to the side or gone back. Now were the forward pass is not always necessarily the correct option, Saturday, it needed someone to try and be abit brave, Tom did that, then got berated for it, what did he do with his next pass? Little through ball to Baines!
People tend to forget, Pienaar was roundly crisscrossed all the time in his playing days for doing to much, trying impossible balls etc, but now that memory is gone, and all we do is say "he was ace pienaar e"

Thats basically it mate. The passage he gets Baines in was very like how Peinaar and Osman played. That to me shows he has that ability, but not the consistency and frequency of doing it. Peinaar would do that that 3/4/5 times a game sometimes, not a season.

You are right as well that Peinaar was largely derided for passages of his Everton career. I think he was one of our best players of the last 20 years, but probably didn't have the numbers of the pace to really get the credit he deserved as a player more broadly. I still think Osman remains very underrated by our fans, but in our currently midfield, which has a lack of players who can hold the ball and have the guile to open teams up you can see how we miss these two. There was a spell where they played together with Arteta in midfield for a couple of months under Moyes and few teams could touch them, even the top teams.

As for Davies, much of what you have to do with a young player is see what they can potentially do and you hope as they get older they can do it more often and more consistently. This for me is why I am unsure of Kenny, who remains a solid right back but I think he lacks the pace to make it in the Premier League.

Any suggestion Davies is currently at Peinaars level is untrue and I hold my hands up for that, it's certainly not my belief and not how I intended it to come across (though I can see why it did). However can Davies get close to the level of Peinaar and Osman? For me absolutely. Can he also get close to what McCarthy gives us in terms of pressing? Absolutely. And if he does we will have a fantastic central midfield player.