Times article, Burnley/Leeds threaten to sue Everton

[HalfTimeSayers]

The reason that projected accounts have to go to the PL in the March of the financial year is to allow the PL the opportunity to apply sanctions in the season in question, if there was going to be a sanction for 20/21 it would have been done in 20/21.

The sanctions in the PL hand book are as follows:

• E.15.1. to require the Club to submit, agree and adhere to a budget
• E.15.2. to require the Club to provide such further information as the Board shall
  determine and for such period as it shall determine; and
• E.15.3. to refuse any application by that Club to register any Player or any new contract of an existing Player of that Club if the Board reasonably deems that this is necessary in order to ensure that the Club complies with its obligations listed in Rule E.14.7.

In truth sanctions are unlimited, but i thik we are in rule E.15.1 already. To my mind "the club working closely and in constant dialogue with the PL" is code for us being subject to rule E.15.1 above, being subject to an agreed budget and an agreement in terms of player trading – i.e. the club having to seek approval or agree to parameters to enable them to buy a player. Those conditions have clearly been a limit on what could we spend without player trading, or indeed take on in wages.

To my mind this is the position of the club and the PL. I think the PL and Everton have a strong position to say the rule has been applied if it ever comes to it, which i dont think it will, as everyone in the power that be seem happy with our submitted accounts. You cant say that the limit on our budget or the need to sell some of our best and most creative players hasn't had an impact or sanction - look at the season we just had.

I think we are in a very strong and comfortable position.

Agree entirely.

I think we have already been operating under the first level of sanctions voluntarily and perhaps informally.

Even if the PL were found to have applied their own rules badly, it would be madness to try and enforce further penalties on us so long after any breach. Every decision the club made after being told they were compliant would have made totally differently.

A final drop of comfort is that we have a new sponsor lined up. Any company about to commit millions PLUS their reputation would hopefully at least Google Everton and then ask “can you just confirm all this spending stuff is ok”.

Same goes for Frank. Would hope his people would have asked the question. He was far from desperate to get back into work. Pretty sure he wouldn’t have jumped onto a sinking ship. Restricted maybe, but not totally shafted.

 

[Amw79]

The reason that projected accounts have to go to the PL in the March of the financial year is to allow the PL the opportunity to apply sanctions in the season in question, if there was going to be a sanction for 20/21 it would have been done in 20/21.

The sanctions in the PL hand book are as follows:

• E.15.1. to require the Club to submit, agree and adhere to a budget
• E.15.2. to require the Club to provide such further information as the Board shall
  determine and for such period as it shall determine; and
• E.15.3. to refuse any application by that Club to register any Player or any new contract of an existing Player of that Club if the Board reasonably deems that this is necessary in order to ensure that the Club complies with its obligations listed in Rule E.14.7.

In truth sanctions are unlimited, but i thik we are in rule E.15.1 already. To my mind "the club working closely and in constant dialogue with the PL" is code for us being subject to rule E.15.1 above, being subject to an agreed budget and an agreement in terms of player trading – i.e. the club having to seek approval or agree to parameters to enable them to buy a player. Those conditions have clearly been a limit on what could we spend without player trading, or indeed take on in wages.

To my mind this is the position of the club and the PL. This is very indictitive of our expiernce and action in the summer on 20/21 in the transfer window. I think the PL and Everton have a strong position to say the rule has been applied if it ever comes to it, which i dont think it will, as everyone in the power that be seem happy with our submitted accounts. You cant say that the limit on our budget or the need to sell some of our best and most creative players hasn't had an impact or sanction - look at the season we just had.

I think we are in a very strong and comfortable position.

Yeah, this is exactly my reading of it. We’re already being subjected to restrictions by the PL, with them having to oversee and approve our transfers, and suspect that will be the case this summer.

I think we probably need to accept that at least one big outgoing transfer is gonna happen, and is possibly part of our justification of excessive Covid loss - I.e we were gonna sell Richy for £75m but couldn’t due to Covid, but have told PL we will be looking to do that this summer to balance the books.

 

[degsy]

The reason that projected accounts have to go to the PL in the March of the financial year is to allow the PL the opportunity to apply sanctions in the season in question, if there was going to be a sanction for 20/21 it would have been done...

...I think we are in a very strong and comfortable position.

From a regulatory financial position maybe so.
But to mix 3 metaphors...or is it proverbs - we're in glass house, riding a tiger, while holding a very long spoon.

 

[HalfTimeSayers]

Whilst I have little sympathy with Leeds or Burnley fans, I do think it would be good for all concerned if a joint statement came out today saying there is nothing to see here.

We may have kept our operating conditions quiet due to working in competitive market. Our situation would clearly affect transfer values for our players as clubs tried to lo-ball.

Need Mr Ingles on Sky laying it all out so all clubs and fans can watch tomorrow unfold knowing that is the end of the season. Whoever goes down, their fans will immediately be interviewed outside the ground demanding we are burnt to the ground so they can stay up. This can be avoided.

 

[Neiler]

I mean that looks almost like sanction 15.1 doesnt it?

The only caveat is, both parties have entered it voluntarily, before any breach has officially occurred. In any court, that would be viewed positively for both the PL and EFC.

It is yet more evidence the club have attempted to, and stayed within the rules.

Thats my take mate, we saw the influence of the PL in our approach to the transfer window last summer, i think it might be a bit more austere then that i think we've had significant oversight of our finances by the PL and required sanction for budget and deals. Essentially we've been under rule E.15.1 since the end of last season - it has impacted us to my mind as well, look at the season we have had and we have culled many of our highest earners. This is why i think the club are so confident. So if the PL have applied their rule and Everton have adhered or can show the evidence, there is no issue.

I think its important to say if the above is correct. I can also see why its not public knowledge, if the PL came out and said Everton have been brought into rule E.151, then it impairs the market for us - if we need to sell players, we take a bath on valuations - as clubs know we need to sell thus clubs will low ball offers knowing we need the money, that defeats the whole purpose of improving our financial health from a Club and PL point of view.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Yeah, this is exactly my reading of it. We’re already being subjected to restrictions by the PL, with them having to oversee and approve our transfers, and suspect that will be the case this summer.

I think we probably need to accept that at least one big outgoing transfer is gonna happen, and is possibly part of our justification of excessive Covid loss - I.e we were gonna sell Richy for £75m but couldn’t due to Covid, but have told PL we will be looking to do that this summer to balance the books.

It’s based over 3 years. This year we reduce the wage bill a lot and spent nothing so the losses will drop by 100 million at least as the 18/19 losses will no longer count. Then the year after a loads of huge contracts players are leaving so that free up a lot of wages

Also with PP at BMD being accepted we could move certain financial figures over to it

 

[HalfTimeSayers]

Thats my take mate, we saw the influence of the PL in our approach to the transfer window last summer, i think it might be a bit more austere then that i think we've had significant oversight of our finances by the PL and required sanction for budget and deals. Essentially we've been under rule E.15.1 since the end of last season - it has impacted us to my mind as well, look at the season we have had and we have culled many of our highest earners. This is why i think the club are so confident. So if the PL have applied their rule and Everton have adhered or can show the evidence, there is no issue.

I think its important to say if the above is correct. I can also see why its not public knowledge, if the PL came out and said Everton have been brought into rule E.151, then it impairs the market for us - if we need to sell players, we take a bath on valuations - as clubs know we need to sell thus clubs will low ball offers knowing we need the money, that defeats the whole purpose of improving our financial health from a Club and PL point of view.

Can’t believe we both used the term low ball at exactly the same time. ?

Must be true.

 

[MikeH72]

April 19th.

Relegation

I don’t think it is. I think our fans are conditioned to imagine worst case scenarios in every event. If we stay up you watch, we’ll have people in here worrying about a retrospective points deduction before long. I’d rather be in Leeds’ position than our own, because it’s points on the board...

www.grandoldteam.com

@coollino

 

[Yarrgh]

Ive found the external auditor we used.

Tony Hibbert? First time he's scored us a penalty in the league.

 

[HalfTimeSayers]

Mate nobody, absolutely nobody seriously thinks we’re going to get a points deduction and go down.

The Leeds fan I coach kids football with is a fairly normal chap. He 100% thinks we are getting points deducted, purely based on mainstream news.

It’s total madness obviously, I agree, but the majority of Leeds and Burnley fans haven’t got the benefit of all the forensic accounting and legal experts on here to tell them it’s tripe.

Just being charitable, it would be nice for one of them to process their own downfall tomorrow night rather than clinging to this RS inspired media barrage of Everton bashing all through summer.

Would imagine it affects Leeds fans more. There are only 6 Burnley fans watching tomorrows games and they have never heard of P&S.

 

[MrGrumpy]

The Leeds fan I coach kids football with is a fairly normal chap. He 100% thinks we are getting points deducted, purely based on mainstream news.

It’s total madness obviously, I agree, but the majority of Leeds and Burnley fans haven’t got the benefit of all the forensic accounting and legal experts on here to tell them it’s tripe.

Just being charitable, it would be nice for one of them to process their own downfall tomorrow night rather than clinging to this RS inspired media barrage of Everton bashing all through summer.

Would imagine it affects Leeds fans more. There are only 6 Burnley fans watching tomorrows games and they have never heard of P&S.

Think they more chance of Chelsea sale not going through in time

 

[Neiler]

The sanctions are at section W, and apply for any breach of the rules, E15 is an additional extra power the Prem has.

The sanctions in W, refer to power and processes of a PL commission, if it went to a commission and i dont think it would given E15.1 the sanctions as i say above are unlimited:

The chairman of the Commission shall have an overriding discretion as to the manner in which a hearing is conducted but, subject thereto:

W.40.1. where the complaint has been admitted, he/she shall invite the Board or its representative to outline the facts of the complaint and shall give the Respondent the opportunity to provide further details of any mitigating factors contained in the answer;

W.49.4.2. deduct points scored or to be scored in League Matches or such other matches as are referred to in Rule W.49.4.1;

W.49.4.3. recommend that the Board orders that a League Match or such other match as is referred to in Rule W.49.4.1 be replayed;

W.49.4.4. recommend that the League expels the Respondent from membership in accordance with the provisions of Rule B.6;

W.49.5. order the Respondent to pay compensation unlimited in amount to any Person or to any Club (or club);

W.49.6. cancel or refuse the registration of a Player registered or attempted to be registered in contravention of these Rules;

W.49.7. impose upon the Respondent any combination of the foregoing or such other penalty as it shall think fit;

W.49.8. order the Respondent to pay such sum by way of costs as it shall think fit which may include the fees and expenses of members of the Commission; and

W.49.9. make such other order as it thinks fit

 

[coollino]

April 19th.

Relegation

I don’t think it is. I think our fans are conditioned to imagine worst case scenarios in every event. If we stay up you watch, we’ll have people in here worrying about a retrospective points deduction before long. I’d rather be in Leeds’ position than our own, because it’s points on the board...

www.grandoldteam.com

@coollino

Wooof great spot

 

[HalfTimeSayers]

W.49.4.3. recommend that the Board orders that a League Match or such other match as is referred to in Rule W.49.4.1 be replayed

Wait…..we can replay the City game and get the penalty?

Or actually play all the games again after locking JJK in a cupboard? Nice one.

 

[Neiler]

Wait…..we can replay the City game and get the penalty?

Or actually play all the games again after locking JJK in a cupboard? Nice one.

In theory! Or we could look for financial compo.

As Catcher was saying its Pandora's box the PL wont want to go near.