2020/21 Thierry Small

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messymascot

Player Valuation: £35m
I think there is a place for Unsworth just not sure he should be coaching the u23s. They seem to go backwards once they join the u23s. He did however spot the talent of DCL so perhaps he should be a talent spotter. With regards to Small he has a long way to go before he is first team ready and if he thinks he is I'm glad he didn't stay as he could have had a potentially unsettling presence around the squads. It will be interesting to see how he gets on at his new club.
 
I think there is a place for Unsworth just not sure he should be coaching the u23s. They seem to go backwards once they join the u23s. He did however spot the talent of DCL so perhaps he should be a talent spotter. With regards to Small he has a long way to go before he is first team ready and if he thinks he is I'm glad he didn't stay as he could have had a potentially unsettling presence around the squads. It will be interesting to see how he gets on at his new club.

He worked with DCL when he was part of the Sheffield United academy so wouldn’t really call it spotting in the same way as a scout does.
 

messymascot

Player Valuation: £35m
He worked with DCL when he was part of the Sheffield United academy so wouldn’t really call it spotting in the same way as a scout does.

Yeah you are right but I certainly think he's unsuitable for the coaching role. Davies one of the few to make it through the academy didn't spend much time with the u23s. He played for the u18s got a few games in the u23s then has pretty much been with the first team squad.
 
Yeah you are right but I certainly think he's unsuitable for the coaching role. Davies one of the few to make it through the academy didn't spend much time with the u23s. He played for the u18s got a few games in the u23s then has pretty much been with the first team squad.

I don't want to keep correcting you but Davies had the best part of 2 seasons with the U23's. I agree there is a bottleneck at the U23 level but to me that is down to two issues:

1. We haven't been in a position with the first team where we can comfortably blood youngsters unless they're exceptional.
2. They're just not that good. (Which is also totally fine)

We will produce lots of professional footballers but not necessarily lots of Everton footballers. In our U23's currently, whilst a bright squad, none are exceptional and I don't know if any of them will make it here. Gordon was one of the best we've had in ages, in my opinion, and even he can't seem to get a few minutes over the likes of Iwobi.
 

Eggs

Player Valuation: £70m
up there with ross barkley and carlo ancelotti in the rat list

….clubs throw the vast majority of their youngsters on the scrap heap. Imagine being given a contract to leave school & having all those dreams of being rich, only to be discarded a few years later. It’s a cut throat business,

I don’t blame any youngster and their representatives doing what’s best for them.
 

messymascot

Player Valuation: £35m
I don't want to keep correcting you but Davies had the best part of 2 seasons with the U23's. I agree there is a bottleneck at the U23 level but to me that is down to two issues:

1. We haven't been in a position with the first team where we can comfortably blood youngsters unless they're exceptional.
2. They're just not that good. (Which is also totally fine)

We will produce lots of professional footballers but not necessarily lots of Everton footballers. In our U23's currently, whilst a bright squad, none are exceptional and I don't know if any of them will make it here. Gordon was one of the best we've had in ages, in my opinion, and even he can't seem to get a few minutes over the likes of Iwobi.

I looked he had one season where he played half the games but still also played an odd game in u18s. In the 2nd season when he played for them he was I the first team squad but they were allowing him to play games with the u23s. I'm guessing you are a big fan of Unsworth so I won't continue. Personally I'm not a fan of him as a coach but I do think that he could fulfil some role within the club.
 
I looked he had one season where he played half the games but still also played an odd game in u18s. In the 2nd season when he played for them he was I the first team squad but they were allowing him to play games with the u23s. I'm guessing you are a big fan of Unsworth so I won't continue. Personally I'm not a fan of him as a coach but I do think that he could fulfil some role within the club.

I’m not a big fan of Unsworth at all if you read the youth team thread lol

I was just adding some perspective to our academy. I think people expect too much and also read too much into players that may look “promising”.
 

messymascot

Player Valuation: £35m
I’m not a big fan of Unsworth at all if you read the youth team thread lol

I was just adding some perspective to our academy. I think people expect too much and also read too much into players that may look “promising”.

I agree we get to excited at some of the players coming through. What's worse is we are striving for top 6 so it means these players have to be the elite.

Also we had Rooney come through and I think everyone expects them to be that good but even he struggled at times it was just his obvious class shone through.

I hope Small gets his big pay day but I'm not convinced he'll make it. Already showing signs of the wrong attitude.
 

Eggs

Player Valuation: £70m
I think there is a place for Unsworth just not sure he should be coaching the u23s. They seem to go backwards once they join the u23s. He did however spot the talent of DCL so perhaps he should be a talent spotter. With regards to Small he has a long way to go before he is first team ready and if he thinks he is I'm glad he didn't stay as he could have had a potentially unsettling presence around the squads. It will be interesting to see how he gets on at his new club.

….I don’t think coaching at U23 level is holding players back. I’m not a fan of Unsworth but I think much of the criticism of him is lazy and unjustified. The fact is the vast majority of U23 players won’t make the massive leap into first team.

The argument would have more strength if the teams were impressing at U18 level. The FA Youth cup is always a good indicator of having real talent coming through & it’s been a long time since we’ve got to the latter stages (we did ok last season).

I suggest the problem is more about recruitment than coaching.
 

BNJ1878

Player Valuation: £25m
1. We haven't been in a position with the first team where we can comfortably blood youngsters unless they're exceptional.

The smartest thing out of Wengers mouth in recent years was that you pay for young players with points.
We haven't had a strong enough team (or brave enough manager) to do that.

2. They're just not that good. (Which is also totally fine.
When you couple that with the natural tendency of supporters putting extra high expectations on young prospects coming through (particularly at clubs starved of any real recent success) it easy to lose sight of what the academy is supposed to do.

For me, it needs to produce at least 1 breakthrough (regular first team squad player as opposed to training with the team) OR generate about 15m in sales.

Otherwise, what's the point?
 
The smartest thing out of Wengers mouth in recent years was that you pay for young players with points.
We haven't had a strong enough team (or brave enough manager) to do that.


When you couple that with the natural tendency of supporters putting extra high expectations on young prospects coming through (particularly at clubs starved of any real recent success) it easy to lose sight of what the academy is supposed to do.

For me, it needs to produce at least 1 breakthrough (regular first team squad player as opposed to training with the team) OR generate about 15m in sales.

Otherwise, what's the point?

Is that 1 first team regular squad player per season? If so, I’d have to ask you to find any club in the country doing that outside the mega rich that hoover up hundreds of kids every year.
 

mightymoyes

Player Valuation: £70m
Oh yeah, but Unsworth scouted him from his time at Sheff Utd, signed him, got him set up in the U23s, and DCL and his dad both credit Unsworth and Ferguson massively.

I think its easy to dismiss Unsworth, but in the time he's been here, we've had the back end of the Martinez regime which was collapsing. The Arrogance of Koeman, the Apathy of Allardyce, the general lack of faith in youth from Silva, the contradiction of Ancelotti, who spoke so highly of many, but regularly chose to overlook the people he was praising... I was behind him 100% when he was here, but looking back now with a critical eye, and some of his decision making, especially in relation to our younger players, was baffling, even if it was just down to refusing to name them in match day squads for experience and actually naming fewer subs than was allowed.

All in all, none of that has been conducive of an environment to bring through or develop players, so I certainly wouldn't be putting the failure solely down to Unsworth. Under another manager, or at least a more settled first team environment, we may have seen 5 or 6 of Unsworths U23s being regular first team squad members already.

There is also the fact that certain players just haven't kicked on when given opportunities, which is a common theme amongst young footballers, not just those that have been brought through by Unsworth and Everton. Every team has a ton of them, players that looked to be the next big thing for a year then faded away badly for 1 reason or another. It's a tale as old as time.

But I would certainly be giving Unsworth at least some credit where its due in that DCL, Davies, Kenny, Holgate, and even Keiron Dowell will all be playing Premier League Football next year, along with Antonee Robinson who played all of last year and has been linked with City and Milan. 6 players in 6 years is not a terrible return by any means, and that's not counting others who have thrived in lower leagues, or indeed any of the others on the fringes of our squad who might still make an appearance.

far too sensible a post
 

Bedfordblue

Player Valuation: £8m
It’ll be a lot nearer to 600k than 6 million.

It won’t even be 7 figures in my opinion.
Probably right there seems to be very little by way of examples for a 17y/o in Smalls position.
Sure I read he still has 12 months left on some sort of contract but it’s not a pro contract….
This;
https://fullcontactlaw.co.uk/2016/11/compensation-players-24-mystery/
has some interesting figures on but, it’s from 2016 so like I say there’s very little info on anything that could be considered similar.
If the older age group development fees are anything to go by we would be lucky to get 7 figures and a sell on clause.
All a bit of mystery at that age group it seems.
 

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