The State of the game

[TsarDiniyar]

I've come home from work to listen to my Dad go off on one about how he has fell out of love with football. About how we are all being taken for a ride by the clubs we support.

He thinks it's disgusting that I would rather us finish fourth than win the Carling Cup. I tell him that finishing fourth, provides an exciting prospect for the season to come, as well as boosting the clubs finances. He thinks that its terrible that money is taking over the game. I tell him he's a dinosaur and should get with the times. That players determine success, that money determines what players you have, and your league position (in the main) determines your finances. Therefore, to progress you need to finish as high in the league as possible.

Now I can't speak for everyone, but I feel that progression is key and would be easily prepared to sacrifice a short term success or trophy, to continue this progression and see many trophies in years to come.

He is disgusted in me. Should he be?

He then proceeds to tell me how he'd rather support the likes of West Brom, who have endured many success stories in recent years by winning Championship titles and promotions.

I begin PMSL and ask him, for them few promotions, would he be prepared to go through the torrid seasons and relegations they have also endured. Remember the seasons when we survived by the skin of our teeth (notably Wimbledon & Coventry), would I have rather us gone down just to win promotion the following season? [Poor language removed] that!

I agree partially, but the past 5 years worth of progress almost paid dividends last season, where there were many more highs than lows. We've only one trophy to play for now this season (which don't get me wrong I'm totally pissed off about), but I'd much rather have that, with the prospect of playing Arsenal and United in the next 10 days and being a better proposition in the transfer window with a higher level of funds generated at the end of the season. Than have the prospect of playing Derby and Birmingham without the £15m payout + television revenue come the month of May. Do you agree?

Would you rather us throw all our eggs into the F.A cup this year and give up on the league (be a bit like Middlesbrough a few years back), or plough all our energy into regaining our premier league consistency and forcing entry into next years Europa League therefore becoming a more attractive proposition and giving us more to play for?

It seems like a no brainer to me.


I don't think I should have been made to have this attitude, I do agree with my Dad in that sense, BUT the fact is money dictates these days, and my views are simply just conforming with the current STATE OF THE GAME.

 

[teppic]

it would seem that silverware is a good option as it is something to cheer and gets listed forever on the honours list. so i can see the argument for that point of view.

however i would rather a 4th place finish tbh.

the reasons are very simple. firstly if you win the carling cup perhaps that is a run of 5 games to the final. not much success over a long hard season.

but.. a 4th place finish would mean we win the majority of our games this season. that to me would provide more enjoyment and entertainment. added to that a chance of trhe champs league next season. and what we all live for is hope. hope we can improve, hope we beat liverpool, hope we once again rule europe.

so a season with many happy saturday nights after winning most games, added with the prospect of champs league footy the next season would beat the carling cup for me.

the game is about money these days, but it is also about improvement. we would improve more as a club with a winning mentality of a 4th place finish rather than treading water in tha league for 9 months all for one day in the sun in april.

 

[linglong]

I think your dad speaks a lot of sense Kingjoleon,i really do

 

[Gazdalf]

give me the Carling cup first, before regular champs league slots.

It is about winning. I want cups. I want titles. Being happy with 4th is like saying "I am a RS and my success comes from always being an also ran and not winning".

I understand the regular top 4 finish dreams, but [Poor language removed] it, I want to start winning now, and given the choice, I would take a Carling cup(if still in) over 4th this season. Then next season push for the top 4(also, winning a carling cup guarantees UEFA cup and the confidence would lift our players to still finish 4th on their merit and drive.

So basically, I would take a Carling Cup title as it finishes earlier in the season, guarantees you Europe, and you can still finish 4th after it.

 

[Duncan9]

give me the Carling cup first, before regular champs league slots.

It is about winning. I want cups. I want titles. Being happy with 4th is like saying "I am a RS and my success comes from always being an also ran and not winning".

I understand the regular top 4 finish dreams, but [Poor language removed] it, I want to start winning now, and given the choice, I would take a Carling cup(if still in) over 4th this season. Then next season push for the top 4(also, winning a carling cup guarantees UEFA cup and the confidence would lift our players to still finish 4th on their merit and drive.

So basically, I would take a Carling Cup title as it finishes earlier in the season, guarantees you Europe, and you can still finish 4th after it.

Ditto !

 

[toffeestillidie]

in terms of club strategy, banking on winning the carling cup isn't really a viable option. even if we field a full strength squad every game, our chances of winning isn't gauranteed, so it seems like it makes more sense to try to finish higher for the sake of your club.

certainly finishes mattered, even in your dads time, or does he believe that when a club is out of cup prospects and short of title chances, they should just ride out the season.

the game has changed, and in my opinion for the worse, but that doesn't mean that we as fans should abandon our teams. big clubs will always have glory-hunter fans, so its our duty to support clubs like everton, if nothing else, to level the playing field.

even without money in the equation, relegation is a step back for your team, no team ever wants to be relegated. aside from this point about relegation, i see the wisdom in your fathers words to a degree.

that being said, while i too hate the direction football has moved in, and in a way i'm still glad we don't have an investor, because it means we're not yet a part of everything wrong with football (reckless spending on untested players and signing players for huge sums in the twilight of their careers), clubs still need to be practical, and i in no way fault the club for prioritizing a 4th place finish ahead of the carling cup

 

[Nebbiolo]

I'm with you, KJ. It would be nice to win a cup or two but league positioning is the most important. In fact, I'd go further and say that to see consistent results over a season, with us finishing 5th or 6th and thus winning entry into the UEFA cup, is better than lifting a cup like the Carling and finishing mid table. I personally see 5th and 6th place as winning something. It's about success over a season, not just in one competition (where it can all be about luck anyway).

 

[Whitebootman]

I agree with Gazdalf.

Football is about winning.

I cannot celebrate securing our money for next season. I don't jump up and down for finishing 4th but I can celebrate winning a place in european competition. I fully believe that David Moyes and our players are more interested in trophies than our bank balance. I believe fans should think the same.

I understand the importance of having money, it has always been that way, but I have never seen a top flight team parade around the city in an open top bus waving a bank statement to thousands of delighted fans.

COME ON YOU BLUES

 

[Namdrater]

I dont like the current state of the game or the direction its going, but I guess we all learn to adapt and accept.

Choosing between a cup and 4th place? Hmmm... I think 4th place would be such a massive achievement, the club earns more respect from people worldwide and theres the prospect of playing football vs some of the best teams in the world and for me thats what footballs all about. I loved the UEFA cup last season to see us compete against such different teams.

To win a cup would be incredible as well though, the open-top bus, Phil Neville raising the trophy after a triumph in the final against a really good side would be an amazing feeling.

I actually cant choose which one I'd rather have, the moment of winning a final and the trophy added to the list of honours. Or playing against the likes of Real Madrid, Roma, Inter Milan, etc.

 

[Nebbiolo]

I actually cant choose which one I'd rather have, the moment of winning a final and the trophy added to the list of honours. Or playing against the likes of Real Madrid, Roma, Inter Milan, etc.

I'd go for the latter. I love us competing in Europe and to be playing teams like those you mention, and not getting stuffed, would be brilliant.

 

[davek]

Never argue with your arl feller - I think this case proves exactly why.

 

[kenada_blue]

We cant compete in Champions League with the current squad so it'd be a waste of time IMO, we learnt our mistakes when we did it a few years ago.

Yeah, I'd love for us to play your Madrid's etc but the fact would be we wouldnt make the group stages and even if we did we'd be embarrassed -- then comes the "we're [Poor language removed], Moyes out, blah blah" brigade after we blow all the hard work of the previous year out of the window. I can also see the english clubs still in the Uefa will get spanked good and proper playing some good side who've been in the champs league. And also I cant see Pompy, Villa us or Citeh getting a top place 4 either -- not for another 2 seasons and depending on how well they build their foundations. Citeh have it harder because I dont think they've got foundations to build on.

If we've a chance to win a cup, go for it I say. You dont see Chelsea thinking the Milk Cup is a waste of time -- Ambramovich sees it as a trophy, the more trophys the better.

Im not saying dont have a go at the top places in the league but sucesses starts at home IMO. And I'm more gutted about getting knocked out of the Carling Cup (which we could've gone all the way on) rather the Uefa (where we'd run out of legs because its a very long tournament).

 

[Nebbiolo]

We cant compete in Champions League with the current squad so it'd be a waste of time IMO, we learnt our mistakes when we did it a few years ago.

We can't hope to win it, or come close. But the squad should be able to cope with the group stages reasonably well. Remember, not all the clubs in it are exactly world beaters. Take Aalborg, for example - they're hardly as as good as us. It's only by getting regular stabs at the CL that we'll build a team capable of competing in it. We build up a seeding level, attract some quality players, get the £15m windfall and so on. From tiny acorns, so to speak.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Leauge positioning for me, it's shows your consistently up there.

 

[kenada_blue]

We can't hope to win it, or come close. But the squad should be able to cope with the group stages reasonably well. Remember, not all the clubs in it are exactly world beaters. Take Aalborg, for example - they're hardly as as good as us. It's only by getting regular stabs at the CL that we'll build a team capable of competing in it. We build up a seeding level, attract some quality players, get the £15m windfall and so on. From tiny acorns, so to speak.

Oh I agree, that money for getting into the group stage is silly and is a very nice return for winning over two legs but it is short term planning for success. Get to the group stages, play more games, get knocked out, affects league games etc....

Most of the teams in the champs league are on par even slightly better than say Liege, we cant even beat Blackburn's reserves or Hull and the moment. Consistancy works,squads depth helps, the 1 world class talent gives you that push to change games. There's never any real easy games in the champs league, we're a hit and miss team when we're battling in too many comps.

Like I've said, give it a few years build the squad up to handle champs league. Doesnt mean we should just be a cup team but we do have a better shot at getting to an FA Cup final than getting 4th in the league so we should be doing what we can to get their (especially this year).

I cant even see Villa or Pompey making an impact on the champs league if they got there unless they spend a fair bob on more class and depth.

I'd just like some home success before reaching for the skies.