The Squad?????

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Its not so much that i dont rate him in praticular mate, i dont rate any of our defenders at all this season - they have all been poor as a unit.

Thats what surprises me about people focussing on strikers etc, when quite clearly on average we are scoring two a game but conceading just as many. Our deficincey hasnt been in creating or putting away chances, but rather giving teams chances against us. I have decided not to be hasty in writing of any of our players at the back this season, as there are mitigating circmstances - injuries, lack of consistencey in partnerships and the whole team being less solid. But for me i cant remember a season under Moyes where teams are gaurenteed 5 -10 chances against us and the defence as a unit (and often times individualls playing there) have been culpable and i include Johnny in that.

Like i say - they have all been slated at one stage or another praticularly Distin and Yobo - which for me is a bit harsh given the context. Yet the fact remains despite the whole team being open and a marked change in our style of play, individually there have been hugh errors in defence and poor performences that can not be excused and i include Johnny in that. His displays have been more encourgaeing then others, but i have noticed times he has been indecisive of wheather to go to the ball or the man, or has been cuaght flat footed or wildly out of position - he has done a lot of positive things also yet there is definitely room for improvement in his game as a defender. It is important not to mask over these areas of improvement becuase of his attributes in distribution or his vision. Our clean sheet record this season speaks for itself and i dont think any of our defenders desreve a pat on the back to be honest.

Which brings me to the point of why i would like to see him in a midfeild slot. The whole team has been far to open this season the majority of the goals scored against us this season have been on the counter if you look at them. Why? Becuase of how we play really. In pocession at times we can have as many as 8 outfeild players in forward positions leaving a massive amount of space infront of our two centre backs as the last men, often the full backs are cuaght to far forward and it leaves our centre halfs with a decsion to make to stick or cover - this can often happen when they are out numbered.

The truth is we play better when we play with an anchor midfeilder to gaurd against the counter - Carsley - Neville -Heitinga. Moyes tried to play Rodwell there at the start of the season but it didnt really happen for the lad, nor do i think its his best position. That role gives the team balance and a solidity and makes us less vulnerable on the counter.

As effective as Carsley and Neville have been playing there Heitinga has something that neither had which is high quality in distribution, and vison, combined with a natural tenacity and talismanic leadership qualites. He could be the evolution to that role we have all craved since we first uttered the word "Carleys replacement". Like Fellaini last season you can see the potential in him and im convinced he can be become a high quality player in that position, rather then just being a good centre half - which on what i have seen so far is all i think he may be at centre half. He could be the lynchpin of our team i beleive for years to come there.

That said i still dont think he is 65% the player he is going to be, he still has bags of development and potential to tap into for me - but its there.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, we are probably just discussing different options as far as I can tell.

Personally if it was a choice of Heitinga or Fellaini playing defensive mid I would go with Fellaini every time simply because of his physicality. As hard as Heitinga is, he can be bypassed a lot more easily than Fellaini can, on the ground or in the air. Fellaini's distribution isn't bad either, granted he can't rake 60 yarders like Heitinga, but his brain is decent.

As you said maybe we could have Heitinga DM with Fellaini and Arteta ahead of him. For me that would be a waste of Fellaini, we've all seen how effective he can be in the holding position, I think he would drift in and out of games far too much if we gave him free roam like he had when he first came. You want to have him in the thick of things as much as possible, so put him where the ball is going to be and let him use his attributes. (Or convert him into a centre back, I almost suggested this the other day)

One thing I do entirely agree with is how weak we have been overall defensively this season, we've been shocking at times. My main point is that if we don't play Heitinga centre back, I don't want him replaced with a shithouse that can't pass a ball. If that means getting a foreigner who's unproven in this league then so be it. Ball playing centre backs are worth loads in my opinion, yet still clubs manage to sign some for peanuts.

Also agree about Yobo, I would rather have Yobo and Jagielka than Distin.

I really think at this stage we need to be spending a lot of money on one player rather than small amounts on a few. Whichever position it is Moyes decides he wants to strengthen, I just hope he signs someone good.
 

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, we are probably just discussing different options as far as I can tell.

Personally if it was a choice of Heitinga or Fellaini playing defensive mid I would go with Fellaini every time simply because of his physicality. As hard as Heitinga is, he can be bypassed a lot more easily than Fellaini can, on the ground or in the air. Fellaini's distribution isn't bad either, granted he can't rake 60 yarders like Heitinga, but his brain is decent.

As you said maybe we could have Heitinga DM with Fellaini and Arteta ahead of him. For me that would be a waste of Fellaini, we've all seen how effective he can be in the holding position, I think he would drift in and out of games far too much if we gave him free roam like he had when he first came. You want to have him in the thick of things as much as possible, so put him where the ball is going to be and let him use his attributes. (Or convert him into a centre back, I almost suggested this the other day)

One thing I do entirely agree with is how weak we have been overall defensively this season, we've been shocking at times. My main point is that if we don't play Heitinga centre back, I don't want him replaced with a shithouse that can't pass a ball. If that means getting a foreigner who's unproven in this league then so be it. Ball playing centre backs are worth loads in my opinion, yet still clubs manage to sign some for peanuts.

Also agree about Yobo, I would rather have Yobo and Jagielka than Distin.

I really think at this stage we need to be spending a lot of money on one player rather than small amounts on a few. Whichever position it is Moyes decides he wants to strengthen, I just hope he signs someone good.


Good post mate, still would have Heitinga in the centre though, Mofro strength is that he is box - box he has a role to play all over the pitch. I think part of his success has been to the detroiment of the team in a small sense in that when he played that role we missed him to much going forward and when he did get forward gaps appered in behind. Like you say he needs to be in the thick of things whether thats in the final third, the centre or in front of the defence - to that do that though he needs the freedom to express himself - i feel the same with Arteta giving these two a discplined licence, with a defensive sweeper in behind them would make us potent in attack and immensly difficult to break down when not in pocession given the trios defensive skill, physicality and work rate.

The sacrifical lamb of course is Super Tim - but does his impact on the team this season deserve him to be a shoe in starter next season. As much as i love him i find it hard to argue that he should start ahead of the Mofro, the Heit and Arteta.

I know what your saying about ball playing centre backs, but both the Heit and Mofro and to an extent Baines are excellent at picking the ball up of the centre halves and buillding a foundation from there. To be honest id rather a centre half who kept 20 clean sheets then one who is able to pick out Hollywood passes, both would be nice though.

I think the key to success and consistencey is finding the right balabce between being solid and safe, against being creative and making chances.

We havnt acheived that this season. - despite some great performences - devlopment - and change in our overall style of play.
 
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, we are probably just discussing different options as far as I can tell.

Personally if it was a choice of Heitinga or Fellaini playing defensive mid I would go with Fellaini every time simply because of his physicality. As hard as Heitinga is, he can be bypassed a lot more easily than Fellaini can, on the ground or in the air. Fellaini's distribution isn't bad either, granted he can't rake 60 yarders like Heitinga, but his brain is decent.

As you said maybe we could have Heitinga DM with Fellaini and Arteta ahead of him. For me that would be a waste of Fellaini, we've all seen how effective he can be in the holding position, I think he would drift in and out of games far too much if we gave him free roam like he had when he first came. You want to have him in the thick of things as much as possible, so put him where the ball is going to be and let him use his attributes. (Or convert him into a centre back, I almost suggested this the other day)

One thing I do entirely agree with is how weak we have been overall defensively this season, we've been shocking at times. My main point is that if we don't play Heitinga centre back, I don't want him replaced with a shithouse that can't pass a ball. If that means getting a foreigner who's unproven in this league then so be it. Ball playing centre backs are worth loads in my opinion, yet still clubs manage to sign some for peanuts.

Also agree about Yobo, I would rather have Yobo and Jagielka than Distin.

I really think at this stage we need to be spending a lot of money on one player rather than small amounts on a few. Whichever position it is Moyes decides he wants to strengthen, I just hope he signs someone good.

Fully agreed on that, although I can see where the Neiler cat is coming from.
 
Ideal world- Yobo gets sold. Senderos snapped up for nothing.

No one else leaves.

Get a right back and a pacy winger ala donovan.... Well win the league
 

The thing about Arteta is he does the simple things well, which makes it all the more alarming at how clueless we look without him at times.

Smart movement, give and go, short, simple passes. Simple as that. And yet when he isn't on the field, we just don't look the same team. Worrying.

The difference with arteta compared to our other midfielders is his brain, he knows the right pass to give and when to give it. The likes of osman and pienaar can pass and move but sometimes i find they pick the wrong option and maybe go down a blind alley and we end up losing possesion. You very rarely see arteta do that. If we need to go back with the ball and be patient he,ll do it or when we need to inject a bit of pace in attack he sees it.

Only the better midfielders in the world have this trait, you see it in abundance when you watch teams like barca and how their midfield operate. One thing is for sure, we are very lucky to have mikel, cos we would be very lucky again to find someone capable of filling his boots unless we had big money to spend and even then, theres no gaurantees.

Back on topic, i think spending whatever money we have on donovan(if thats possible) or another pacy winger is priority. Get beckford and mucha on frees and someone to cover bainesy on the cheap and we are sorted. I honestly think yobo will be leaving us this summer. For me the writing is on the wall for him, he is certainly not first choice, he,s been here for a long time now and may fancy a change, and moyes knows he could still get decent money for him to reinvest(see donovan bid above).
 
i actually forgot all about him

Who? Senderos? If he wants to stay, I'd have him being he's 25, played at the highest level of European football, cup and league titles, and has everything a defender needs apart from pace.

He's also got good sell on value if it doesnt work out. I honestly think he's just wanting a home to played football, which he hasnt had for 2 seasons.

He's also better than Distin IMO.
 


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