The Somme : 1/7/16

[Toffeelover]

Terrible heart rending stories coming out about this battle, found it difficult to go on watching and listening.

 

[ToffeeDoug]

Some terrible reporting today in the media, treating it as a one day battle. It lasted for 3.5 months before ending. My grandmother's cousin in the Black Watch 1st Battalion was marched and trained down from Bethune to join the action on about 4th July, fighting for weeks in the Pozieres region and advancing up to High Wood.

 

[thirdmantackle]

Thousands of Irishmen fought and died in the Somme.

Never forget

 

[Groucho]

Was there in 2003 and then 2010.

My grandads two uncles, from Kirkdale, off Westminster Road, never returned.

My paternal great grandad was in the battle of Jutland, luckily surviving because I'm here today.

Unbelievable sacrifice, and totally unnecessary.

 

[summerisle]

Thousands of Irishmen fought and died in the Somme.

Never forget

As well as Australians, Canadians, New Zealanders, Indians, British West Indies ( as it was than) South Africans and the forgotten contribution of China.
https://www.chathamhouse.org/publication/twt/china-s-forgotten-foreign-legion#

 

[Armaghtoffee]

Was there in 2003 and then 2010.

My grandads two uncles, from Kirkdale, off Westminster Road, never returned.

My paternal great grandad was in the battle of Jutland, luckily surviving because I'm here today.

Unbelievable sacrifice, and totally unnecessary.

Nail on head. Totally unnessary. I was disappointed that this wasn't a more prevalent theme in the BBC reporting. Those men died following orders from many miles away.

 

[summerisle]

Nail on head. Totally unnessary. I was disappointed that this wasn't a more prevalent theme in the BBC reporting. Those men died following orders from many miles away.

It was specifically commemorating the day I think. Go to the BBC IPlayer for the series about the War featuring participants from all countries.

 

[zirc]

That wasn't my intention. This whole belief that our generals such Haig simply regurgitated the same plans with bludgeoning ease is incorrect.

There were failings and some were incompetent, but the British Army in 1917-1918 was much more professional and tactically advanced.

The problem is that individuals failings (such as the artillery at the Somme) and subsequent factors long forgotten paint a different picture.

It also ignores the primarily stronger lines the Boch had over us. What if the French had been at the Somme as originally planned? Lots of stuff...

What really happened though was as our tactics enhanced and our army matured (dilution of the pals battalions), we began to prosper.

Look at Arras. Look at the Canadians under Byng at Vimy Ridge. Unfortunately however, up until 1917 we had little else we could actually do.

Haig in the latter years of the war was shown to be an astute general who was willing to adopt more flexible tactics.

And you still would have got flattened by the Germans after Russia gave up and they were able to move 30 odd divisions to the western front - if not for the Americans joining.

 

[summerisle]

And you still would have got flattened by the Germans after Russia gave up and they were able to move 30 odd divisions to the western front - if not for the Americans joining.

I believe Holland decided to be neutral and gave asylum to the Kaiser, so no help there.

 

[zirc]

Some terrible reporting today in the media, treating it as a one day battle. It lasted for 3.5 months before ending. My grandmother's cousin in the Black Watch 1st Battalion was marched and trained down from Bethune to join the action on about 4th July, fighting for weeks in the Pozieres region and advancing up to High Wood.

Yes, battles then were far different from what we understand an engagement to be. Verdun lasted nearly a year! There are still areas in France around Verdun which are cordoned off and you're not allowed to enter due the sheer concentration of unexploded ordnance and ground poisoning from phosgene. Google the red zone of France for some chilling stuff.

 

[zirc]

I believe Holland decided to be neutral and gave asylum to the Kaiser, so no help there.

Yep tried the same trick again in 1940, turned out rather badly. We're just a jarg Switzerland.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

It was specifically commemorating the day I think. Go to the BBC IPlayer for the series about the War featuring participants from all countries.

Fair enough, I just dipped in briefly. The men who died deserve the finest comemeration. I just struggle with the knowledge of men sent to death at the behest of strategists.

 

[ToffeeDoug]

Yes, battles then were far different from what we understand an engagement to be. Verdun lasted nearly a year! There are still areas in France around Verdun which are cordoned off and you're not allowed to enter due the sheer concentration of unexploded ordnance and ground poisoning from phosgene. Google the red zone of France for some chilling stuff.

Couple of years ago we went to see Iron Maiden in Arras and combined it with another trip to see the area's WW1 sites, one of them being Lochnagar Crater. I overheard a woman there, about 60, saying when she used to come here about 40 years ago with her grandfather, a veteran of the Great War, the fields around the crater were strictly out of bounds, unexploded ordnance signs everywhere.

The French farmers still churn up tons of metal fragments and shells every year out of the fields, they call it the iron harvest.

 

[zirc]

Lots of soldiers stated that the War was the best period of their lives. The anti-war sentiment only gathered apace from about 1927 with the publication of the middle and upper class memoirs and poems of authors such as Edmund Blundell, Siegfried Sassoon and Robert Graves.
Haig founded the British Legion and over a million people attended his funeral in 1928.

On the other hand, Tolkien based his Mordor on his experiences at the Somme.

"It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume."

 

[summerisle]

On the other hand, Tolkien based his Mordor on his experiences at the Somme.

"It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume."

He was also brought up in Birmingham.