The Somme : 1/7/16

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Again a comment by Haig and the War Council and often used to browbeat him and others to show some form of ludicrous naivety.

Yes, as an ex-cavalry officer there were aspects of such weaponry that were alien to him. But he was schooled in the concept of the offensive.

The British Army equally had to fight a war on the offensive. Ever carried a Vickers Gun ? Believe me they're bloody heavy - three to four men.

The German's however were happy to entrench themselves in the high ground they'd retreated to and were fighting a defensive war.

For them, the machine gun was paramount to their principle of defence. For us it was a good weapon but not a pivotal aspect for an offensive.

I'm not say there weren't failings as there was, but lots of people have simply become entrenched in a belief of some form of stupidity.
 
Again a comment by Haig and the War Council and often used to browbeat him and others to show some form of ludicrous naivety.

Yes, as an ex-cavalry officer there were aspects of such weaponry that were alien to him. But he was schooled in the concept of the offensive.

The British Army equally had to fight a war on the offensive. Ever carried a Vickers Gun ? Believe me they're bloody heavy - three to four men.

The German's however were happy to entrench themselves in the high ground they'd retreated to and were fighting a defensive war.

For them, the machine gun was paramount to their principle of defence. For us it was a good weapon but not a pivotal aspect for an offensive.

I'm not say there weren't failings as there was, but lots of people have simply become entrenched in a belief of some form of stupidity.
Lots of soldiers stated that the War was the best period of their lives. The anti-war sentiment only gathered apace from about 1927 with the publication of the middle and upper class memoirs and poems of authors such as Edmund Blundell, Siegfried Sassoon and Robert Graves.
Haig founded the British Legion and over a million people attended his funeral in 1928.
 
Again a comment by Haig and the War Council and often used to browbeat him and others to show some form of ludicrous naivety.

Yes, as an ex-cavalry officer there were aspects of such weaponry that were alien to him. But he was schooled in the concept of the offensive.

The British Army equally had to fight a war on the offensive. Ever carried a Vickers Gun ? Believe me they're bloody heavy - three to four men.

The German's however were happy to entrench themselves in the high ground they'd retreated to and were fighting a defensive war.

For them, the machine gun was paramount to their principle of defence. For us it was a good weapon but not a pivotal aspect for an offensive.

I'm not say there weren't failings as there was, but lots of people have simply become entrenched in a belief of some form of stupidity.
As I said to @summerisle, I will edify myself on the Great War via fresh reading material. Until then, I will defer to your evidently more extensive knowledge on the subject
 
As I said to @summerisle, I will edify myself on the Great War via fresh reading material. Until then, I will defer to your evidently more extensive knowledge on the subject
Mud, blood and poppycock by Gordon Corrigan is a good rebuttal of some of the popular myths about the whole "Lions led by donkeys" view.
Edit beaten to it.
 
That wasn't my intention. This whole belief that our generals such Haig simply regurgitated the same plans with bludgeoning ease is incorrect.

There were failings and some were incompetent, but the British Army in 1917-1918 was much more professional and tactically advanced.

The problem is that individuals failings (such as the artillery at the Somme) and subsequent factors long forgotten paint a different picture.

It also ignores the primarily stronger lines the Boch had over us. What if the French had been at the Somme as originally planned? Lots of stuff...

What really happened though was as our tactics enhanced and our army matured (dilution of the pals battalions), we began to prosper.

Look at Arras. Look at the Canadians under Byng at Vimy Ridge. Unfortunately however, up until 1917 we had little else we could actually do.

Haig in the latter years of the war was shown to be an astute general who was willing to adopt more flexible tactics.
In my view the army that we had at the end of the great war was the best this country has ever fielded. And Haig was instrumental in making it so.
 
A E Housemans, 'Lads in their hundreds', always gets me. Show of hands do a good version, as well as Butterworth. I think it was about the Boer war but still very good.
 
A E Housemans, 'Lads in their hundreds', always gets me. Show of hands do a good version, as well as Butterworth. I think it was about the Boer war but still very good.

Possibly one of the best Zombie's songs. Although the title says Western Front 1914, it is clearly about the Somme.

 
My grandfather was taken prisoner by the germans he never ever spoke of the war. He had a scar across the palm of his left hand my gran said was a bayonet wound he had received. I asked him once how he got the scar he just replied " I couldn't run bloody fast enough".
 
Lots of soldiers stated that the War was the best period of their lives. The anti-war sentiment only gathered apace from about 1927 with the publication of the middle and upper class memoirs and poems of authors such as Edmund Blundell, Siegfried Sassoon and Robert Graves.
Haig founded the British Legion and over a million people attended his funeral in 1928.

not quite sure 'best period of their lives' was strictly accurate. Memorable, the pure exhilaration of being shot at and surviving, the mateship, defining and many others, but I get your point.

Somebody must've said it better, but I don't know who...'war brings out both the best and worst in men'

But I think Edwin Starr summed it up
War!
Huh!
good god ya'll,
what is it good for?
absolutely nothing.

read the John Masters Trilogy...a good read but gives you an idea too.
 
My grandfather was taken prisoner by the germans he never ever spoke of the war. He had a scar across the palm of his left hand my gran said was a bayonet wound he had received. I asked him once how he got the scar he just replied " I couldn't run bloody fast enough".
The Red Cross has uploaded all the German pow records from the end of the war. You should have a look and see if you can find anything about him there.
http://grandeguerre.icrc.org
 
http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2016/07/01/hero-roose-remembered

Hero Roose Remembered
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@Everton01 July 2016 14:39

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Today, 1 July, marks 100 years since the first day of the Battle of the Somme - a First World War campaign that raged on until 18 November 1916. A reported 1.5 million lives were lost in that time, including that of one of the most remarkable and game-changing characters in football’s rich history...

On its own, the name Leigh Roose is easily missed among the thousands listed on the Theipval Memorial in northern France.

In fact, it is spelt wrong. On it, he is ‘Rouse’.

It is a gross injustice for a man and footballer steeped in history. Roose, a former goalkeeper, was a maverick, a rebel, a trailblazer.... and a hero.

In an era when goalkeepers could bounce the ball out all the way to the halfway line but were too frightened by big powerful forwards, Roose bucked the trend.

Physically imposing, he would fight fire with fire, clattering opponents to the floor before launching another attack.

When he wasn’t called into action, he would be joking with supporters, swinging from the bar or performing gymnastics.

Off the pitch, he was famous for his equally astounding brashness – he once hired a train to carry him, and only him, from Euston in London to play an away game for Stoke City at Aston Villa.

It was his blasé character that endeared him to Evertonians soon after his arrival in 1904. Roose, a Wales international, had already retired at the age of 26 but decided to accept the Blues’ invitation to play as cover for the injured Bill Scott, with understudy George Kitchensuffering with flu. In his first game, his error handed Sunderland the winner in a 1-0 loss.

His response? Spending 15 minutes shaking supporters’ hands and apologising for his mistake prior to the next game against Derby County. He then produced an outstanding display, pulling off a number of exceptional saves and bowing to the fans after each one.

The Everton faithful were smitten.

Going forward, Roose was the catalyst that turned the Toffees from mid-table mediocrity to the brink of an incredible league and FA Cup double.

But it was not to be. Aston Villa dashed cup hopes in the semi-finals, and Roose fell out spectacularly with chairman Will Cuff after the team played Manchester City then Arsenal 24 hours later in April (the original November fixture against the Gunners had been abandoned because of fog).

Roose was immediately dropped, with Scott recalled to the side, and his Blues career was finished 24 games after it started.

But that is just half the Roose story. Why is his name, albeit misspelt, on the Theipval Memorial? Promoted to the rank of lance corporal, Roose was tragically killed, aged 38, towards the end of the Battle of the Somme. The exact location and manner of his death remain a matter of dispute.

What cannot be contested is his bravery. His regimental history cites: "Private Leigh Roose, who had never visited the trenches before, was in the sap when the flammenwerfer attack began. He managed to get back along the trench and, though nearly choked with fumes with his clothes burnt, refused to go to the dressing station. He continued to throw bombs until his arm gave out, and then, joining the covering party, used his rifle with great effect."

It was an action for which he was awarded the Military Medal. Roose, for all of his outlandish antics, was unquestionably a hero.


 
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