The Now-Irrelevant 2024/25 Relegation Battle (Without Everton!)

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Saint Domingo said:
Yeah there’s always one team that bury themselves with an absolutely ridiculous managerial appointment. Leicester was the team this year. Leeds bringing in Jesse Marsch, they might have stayed up if they’d gone for Allardyce at that point. Southampton in that same season going for a complete unknown in Ruben Selles because the players liked him and he fitted some mythical methodology when they still had a chance of staying up.

We almost did it with Lampard until we found some form at the end of his first season.
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Yes to all of this. But some are sunk before they begin. Parker at Burnley and Farke at Leeds. They will take them down. It's that simple.
 
Saint Domingo said:
We were tracking around a point per game and had been (and more) for close to 2 years (good form or bad). Obviously Moyes is a better manager and once the owners were in it was the right decision to get the best manager possible. But then people claiming we were definitely going down were panicking way too much.

We weren’t going down no matter how much people wanted to catastrophes. Even if we’d stuck with Dyche and lost all 8 games making it 10 losses in a row (which never happened under Dyche at Everton) we’d still have more than a good chance of staying up.

Both things can be true. It was the right decision to go for Moyes once Friedkin took over, but we were also never going down.
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The danger was giving Dyche far too long and then he'd mess up the Leicester game for instance. And also not win at Palace or Brighton. Then you're on 24/25 points and heading into a horrendous April run of games low on confidence and points.

The change was made arguably a few weeks later than it should've been as they were grounds for letting Dyche go after losing at Southampton as I'm sure Moyes would've been up for it in November just as much as he was in January.

Edit: Ipswich had also just taken four points off Chelsea and Fulham when Dyche was sacked. What has basically relegated them is finding a way to lose at home to Southampton. Now they don't even believe they're going to draw games.
 
knowing your history said:
Leeds imo with what they probably will spend in the summer will not give Farke more than ten games next season. He needs to have a significantly better start than either of the two Norwich seasons when they were already at the bottom after 5-6 matches.

Sheffield United at least this time have Wilder who knows premier league but when you look at their side the vast majority are failed prem players, had Hamza Choudhry at RB who couldn't get in mediocre Leicester teams for years, Rob Holding came on late and Kieffer Moore was unused sub so they're going to need a significant transfer window to be competitive and not sure they have the budget.

To add to all that I can't see any situation where this club is on the brink of going down with Moyes running things so I think next year will see a strong start and it will be very comfortable upper mid table.
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It will be too late by then. Those first 10 games are critical as the promoted teams fall away.

I'm also unconvinced they spend enough really.

Burnley and Ipswich spent 150m and it wasn't enough. I doubt with FFP they can get close.

If there's a team who might be able to stay up it will be Wilder at Sheffield United.

Farke will not keep a side up,.and neither will Parker
 
catcherintherye said:
Yes to all of this. But some are sunk before they begin. Parker at Burnley and Farke at Leeds. They will take them down. It's that simple.
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They’re proven promotion managers but ruthless clubs should get rid once they’re in the prem and get a better suited manager. They don’t however and the managers don’t compromise their principles at all even in the face of terrible results and thus the pattern continues. Kompany at Burnley was the same in what was a display of such personal arrogance it ruined a whole season of a club but ultimately worked out for him personally.
 
Saint Domingo said:
They’re proven promotion managers but ruthless clubs should get rid once they’re in the prem and get a better suited manager. They don’t however and the managers don’t compromise their principles at all even in the face of terrible results and thus the pattern continues. Kompany at Burnley was the same in what was a display of such personal arrogance it ruined a whole season of a club but ultimately worked out for him personally.
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Yes. Or employ managers who can keep you in the PL as well.
 
knowing your history said:
The danger was giving Dyche far too long and then he'd mess up the Leicester game for instance. And also not win at Palace or Brighton. Then you're on 24/25 points and heading into a horrendous April run of games low on confidence and points.

The change was made arguably a few weeks later than it should've been as they were grounds for letting Dyche go after losing at Southampton as I'm sure Moyes would've been up for it in November just as much as he was in January.

Edit: Ipswich had also just taken four points off Chelsea and Fulham when Dyche was sacked. What has basically relegated them is finding a way to lose at home to Southampton. Now they don't even believe they're going to draw games.
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What’s relegated the teams at the bottom is the goal difference. Nearly every season the teams with the worst goal differences are sure indicators of the ones that end up at the bottom. Even when Dyche left those teams had huge negative goal differences whilst we had a very good number of clean sheets. The quality of our defence, organisation, work ethic, set pieces, would have in my opinion comfortably seen us finish ahead of the three absolute shambles at the bottom now.
 
Bebeto said:
Wolves have too much quality to go down, even without cunha. So the 3 at the bottom are going to be relegated. Next year might be a tougher year to avoid relegation with Leeds coming back up.
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Think all three come up again will gind it hard because alot of teams will look to improve at the bottom. Us and wolves next season will spend, all the trams come up need to add prem quality look at that leeds team like leicester good for that league but is a jump in quality when you come up
 
Saint Domingo said:
They’re proven promotion managers but ruthless clubs should get rid once they’re in the prem and get a better suited manager. They don’t however and the managers don’t compromise their principles at all even in the face of terrible results and thus the pattern continues. Kompany at Burnley was the same in what was a display of such personal arrogance it ruined a whole season of a club but ultimately worked out for him personally.
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Bournemouth have got it spectacularly right. People thought sacking Scott Parker after about five games was harsh but undoubtedly the right call and O'Neil did a solid job keeping them up before they moved him on and attempted to improve their style with Iraola.

As much as the majority are lambasting him now I actually think Leeds could do worse than give Dyche the job if they are getting in a new manager in September/October next season as they'll likely require someone to install a solid defensive structure in them at top level to get results as they do have pace on the break in their squad.
 
catcherintherye said:
The naive thing is the key for me.

Until promoted teams start basically employing more realistic, experienced managers, and buying more streetwise players they will keep getting relegated.
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Or do what Forest done

Sign about 40 players , fall foul of PSR , take the points deduction & stay up.
Takes a lot of money and is a gamble but the alternative is plain to see.
 
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