Current Affairs The Labour Party

[evilwebby]

Mate the Tories wanted to abandon Merseyside. Literally destroy the area the club is in.
If you feel.comfortable with that then I feel sorry for you.

Do you realise how paranoid you sound with the persecution complex? I'm surprised you don't think that the Tories would send in a fleet of Tornadoes to carpet bomb the area.

 

[tsubaki]

The point is, they don't want to "destroy Liverpool", a starement that is constantly repeated. I've barely heard anything so ridiculous.
Deindustrialisation is a process that has happened in pretty much every major Western nation as technology advances and the world globalises. And as repeated ad infinitum, it would have been impossible for that debt not to increase when you inherit a huge deficit (which is slowly but surely closing). The debt will peak in a few years, then begin to come down.

You repeat it all the time, but that doesn't make it true. For the deficit to be brought under control and debt to come down will require at least a decade without any more recessions or economic shocks, and its very unlikely that we will have that - there are too many problems in our economy (and the government finances), too many in neighbouring ones and an oversupply of global uncertainty anyway.

As for Liverpool:

In a confidential note in the immediate aftermath of the Toxteth riots, Howe said that Heseltine's plans for a "massive injection of additional public spending" to stabilise the inner cities had to be rejected: "Isn't this pumping water uphill? Should we go rather for 'managed decline'? This is not a term for use, even privately. It is much too negative, when it must imply a sustained effort to absorb Liverpool manpower elsewhere – for example in nearby towns of which some are developing quite promisingly."

 

[ashwuk76]

You repeat it all the time, but that doesn't make it true. For the deficit to be brought under control and debt to come down will require at least a decade without any more recessions or economic shocks, and its very unlikely that we will have that - there are too many problems in our economy (and the government finances), too many in neighbouring ones and an oversupply of global uncertainty anyway.

As for Liverpool:

Careful Friend with evidence like that you will be called paranoid soon.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Only one I've found so fsr:
https://www.theguardian.com/society...-burden-falls-again-on-north-and-inner-cities

It's a couple of years old but clearly shows the north is getting the worst of the cuts and Tory councils are not as affected. In fact some have an Increase. And clearly shows Manchester Liverpool and Birmingham getting the biggest cuts. Tories targeting labour councils.

Interesting, thanks. Looking at the table there, my own borough in London (Southwark) has had some quite serious reductions in local government funding, as have many London boroughs. The fact that many of these reductions are in traditional Labour voting areas does look bad, but I'm not sure there's anything in those figures that suggests Liverpool is being singled out?

 

[chicoazul]

I think the gents above have covered it. It's the ignorance of outside little tories over what their favoured party have done to this city that makes them so disliked.

Many of us were alive in the eighties. The managed decline and the cover up of Hillsborough. its not something to dismiss because you're aligned with the tory party. Scousers don't like that too much.

 

[ashwuk76]

Interesting, thanks. Looking at the table there, my own borough in London (Southwark) has had some quite serious reductions in local government funding, as have many London boroughs. The fact that many of these reductions are in traditional Labour voting areas does look bad, but I'm not sure there's anything in those figures that suggests Liverpool is being singled out?

It does look bad, and yes they are targeting labour councils that's clear. Those are percentages mate so it's relative to the size of the budget so Manchester Birmingham and Liverpool will have the biggest council budgets. So a 10 percent reduction on budgets that size is massive compared to most.
Yes London boroughs targetted as well because they are mostly labour despite someone saying on here the other day that London gets more than the rest of the country.

 

[tsubaki]

It does look bad, and yes they are targeting labour councils that's clear. Those are percentages mate so it's relative to the size of the budget so Manchester Birmingham and Liverpool will have the biggest council budgets. So a 10 percent reduction on budgets that size is massive compared to most.
Yes London boroughs targetted as well because they are mostly labour despite someone saying on here the other day that London gets more than the rest of the country.

It isn't just councils as well.

 

[ashwuk76]

It isn't just councils as well.

Yeah because rural areas are a hotbed of crime! Most is committed in towns and cities so they need more police. It's almost like they are happy for the labour town's and cities to descend into chaos.

 

[Groucho]

@Bruce Wayne I've been pushed for time a bit today but for now, I've managed to find an old article in lieu of a more recent one.

Sort of along these lines; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30537288

 

[peteblue]

Many of us were alive in the eighties.

How old were you in 1980 ?

 

[WycombeToffee]

You repeat it all the time, but that doesn't make it true. For the deficit to be brought under control and debt to come down will require at least a decade without any more recessions or economic shocks, and its very unlikely that we will have that - there are too many problems in our economy (and the government finances), too many in neighbouring ones and an oversupply of global uncertainty anyway.

As for Liverpool:

That is true, but cutting is still by far the most suitable option. You go on about how the Tories have increased the debt, but then presumably support Corbyn who is planning to borrow an extra £500 billion over the next 5 years IIRC. That is completely counterproductive.
And as for Liverpool, "managed decline" didn't actually happen at the time, and it certainly isn't happening now. So it is hardly something to criticise the current Conservatives for.

 

[Donald Twain]

Do you realise how paranoid you sound with the persecution complex? I'm surprised you don't think that the Tories would send in a fleet of Tornadoes to carpet bomb the area.

They would only due to the cut backs to the MOD , they would be lucky to get the army up here throwing eggs!

 

[tsubaki]

That is true, but cutting is still by far the most suitable option. You go on about how the Tories have increased the debt, but then presumably support Corbyn who is planning to borrow an extra £500 billion over the next 5 years IIRC. That is completely counterproductive

No, it isn't. The important debate that needs to be had over government finance is what it is that we are spending the money on. Many (most) government departments had their budgets frozen or cut for much of the time since 2010 - as has been pointed out loads of times already on this thread, wages were frozen (in effect a cut), pensions for public sector workers reduced, jobs lost, loads of things sold off (IRRC Osborne got up to £50 billion for state assets sold under his watch, though they were almost certainly worth more than that). Taxes are up, too. Why is it that the reduction in the deficit hasn't been faster? Could it perhaps be that the massive and entirely not dealt with so far waste elsewhere - PFI, outsourcing, procurement, vanity projects etc - is where the money is going?

And as for Liverpool, "managed decline" didn't actually happen at the time, and it certainly isn't happening now. So it is hardly something to criticise the current Conservatives for.

Which is a nice way of admitting that the Tories did actually propose to do what chico, askwuk and the rest said they were proposing to do. As for "managed decline", those are weasel words; if it wasn't directly planned, it was at least connived at - Liverpool lost nearly a third of its population in the space of thirty years, and other cities across the North went through similar (or worse). Given that the current Conservatives are engaged in doing much the same thing, I think its a perfectly valid criticism to make.

 

[chicoazul]

How old were you in 1980 ?

9 years younger than I was in 1989, Grandpa.

 

[chicoazul]

That is true, but cutting is still by far the most suitable option. You go on about how the Tories have increased the debt, but then presumably support Corbyn who is planning to borrow an extra £500 billion over the next 5 years IIRC. That is completely counterproductive.
And as for Liverpool, "managed decline" didn't actually happen at the time, and it certainly isn't happening now. So it is hardly something to criticise the current Conservatives for.

Hahaha. FAKE NEWS.

Imagine southern tories knowing what happens in our city better than us?

Delighted to have stumbled upon this right wing cell on an Everton forum.