Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Tree13]

But socialism is what essentially makes the NHS (when funded properly) what it is.

That saves lives. Many lives daily.

No. That's ridiculously simplistic.

The NHS, when funded properly, is simply a huge health insurance system. The principle was, at its inception, that everyone paid their NI stamp (NI stands for "National Insurance" ffs) and in return everyone could claim healthcare when needed.

It's not a socialist brainwave, its an insurance scheme. For healthcare. It's health insurance.

 

[zzr45]

Teenage pregnancy was at its highest in 1998.

“It’s the result of an unusually long-term and ambitious strategy launched by the Labour government in 1999,” said Alison Hadley, director of the Teenage Pregnancy Knowledge Exchange at the University of Bedfordshire. “The drive to reduce teenage pregnancy was given 10 years to achieve a 50% fall in under-18 conception rates. Unusually for government schemes, efforts really were sustained for the full 10 years and ambitions weren’t lowered, despite difficulties and slow progress at the start.”

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....teenage-pregnancy-rate-public-health-strategy

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...nce-comparable-statistics-were-first-produced

Take a look at figure 2. The big drops come more and more as we move into the 2010's. It wasn't a smooth curve at all and the big changes come in towards the back end.

 

[zzr45]

@zzr45 are you going to apologise and admit you were wrong?
Demonising people on benefits when you haven't a clue what you're talking about is absolutely vintage Tory behaviour.
Take a bow son

No, because get this - Moomin is right, and I'm right too! Yes, the rates have dropped 55%, but it's not as straight forward as it looks and without viewing it as part of a wider context can be misleading. But that's politics!

As for 'demonising people on benefits' thats standard leftist crying when people point out that its a bit crap that people cannot contribute a penny towards anything but be looked after (especially if the benefit caps get removed again.) yet small businesses get squeezed.

If you feel so strongly that we as a society should look after people maybe you could take some of these people in yourself?

 

[Tree13]

Erm........

Sorry, poorly phrased.

All I meant was, he's not listening to you and just trying to goad - there's not a great deal of sense in continuing!

 

[Moomin]

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...nce-comparable-statistics-were-first-produced

Take a look at figure 2. The big drops come more and more as we move into the 2010's. It wasn't a smooth curve at all and the big changes come in towards the back end.

That data is for 15-17 years of age. The data from mine is for under 20. The full teenage data, not a snap shot.

You said teenage pregnancy was at its highest when Labour was in power, the data proves this was not the case and they tackled the problem with a long term strategy.

You mention it was an issue in your area, what area would that be? Also, may i ask your age?

 

[JimmyJeffers]

No, because get this - Moomin is right, and I'm right too! Yes, the rates have dropped 55%, but it's not as straight forward as it looks and without viewing it as part of a wider context can be misleading. But that's politics!

As for 'demonising people on benefits' thats standard leftist crying when people point out that its a bit crap that people cannot contribute a penny towards anything but be looked after (especially if the benefit caps get removed again.) yet small businesses get squeezed.

If you feel so strongly that we as a society should look after people maybe you could take some of these people in yourself?

I do a considerable amount of unpaid work helping people with their benefit claims actually, seeing as you made the assumption that because you do nothing to help those less well off that everyone else does as well

 

[Ernie]

Labour have zero chance then?

 

[peteblue]

Sorry, poorly phrased.

All I meant was, he's not listening to you and just trying to goad - there's not a great deal of sense in continuing!

Thank you.......

 

[peteblue]

Labour have zero chance then?

Oh no they have a chance, about the same as Spurs winning the EPL this year.......

 

[everton2004]

Hmm.....a political discussion on GOT.......

 

[Number_25]

No. That's ridiculously simplistic.

The NHS, when funded properly, is simply a huge health insurance system. The principle was, at its inception, that everyone paid their NI stamp (NI stands for "National Insurance" ffs) and in return everyone could claim healthcare when needed.

It's not a socialist brainwave, its an insurance scheme. For healthcare. It's health insurance.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

"I am proud about the National Health Service.

It's a piece of real socialism.

It's a piece of real Christianity too, you know(?!)

We had to wait a long time for it.

What I had in mind when we organised the National Health Service in 1946 to 1958, and remember when we did it - you know, you younger ones - this is immediately after the end of the Second World War.

When we were, as Sir Winston Churchill then said, a bankrupt nation.

Nevertheless, we did these things. And there is nowhere in any nation in the world - communist or capitalist - any health service to compare with it.

The National Health Service had two main principles:

The first was that the medical arts of science and healing should be made available to people, when they needed them - irrespective of whether they could afford to pay for them, or not.

That was the first principle.

The second was that this should be done, not at the expense of the poorer members of the community - but of the well to do.

In short. I refuse to accept the insurance principle.

I refuse to accept the principle that the NHS should be paid by contributions.

I refuse to accept that... I refused to accept it because I thought it was nonsense.

If you hadn't fully paid up, you couldn't have a second class operation because your card wasn't full of stamps - could you(!?)"

Aneurin Bevan - The father of the NHS.

 

[Number_25]

Moreover, I think one of the most exciting things about this manifesto is the National Investment Bank.

Through this, I can't see why our nation can't be at the forefront of bioinformatic research - finally providing the sort of technology to make the NHS truly cost-effective and, again, create a universal model that other nations will want to follow.

It's about time we make democracy work for us again, this is our chance.

This is our chance for radical change.

A country fair and fit for all across society, where there's no end to achievement.

 

[Boss_Blue]

As for 'demonising people on benefits' thats standard leftist crying when people point out that its a bit crap that people cannot contribute a penny towards anything but be looked after (especially if the benefit caps get removed again.) yet small businesses get squeezed.

If you feel so strongly that we as a society should look after people maybe you could take some of these people in yourself?

Just to confirm I'm reading this right...

If you are unable to contribute towards tax/NI/social care etc but are looked after by the state then this is a bit crap because those who can, contribute instead?

So your against the benefits system?

Also, those of us who feel strongly that the less fortunate should receive support from the state, should instead be going out and taking care of people that the government have abandoned? Rather than trying to hold the government accountable over the systematic erosion in social care and benefits?

Staggered by this to be honest.

 

[bring the ghost on]

It's not a socialist brainwave, its an insurance scheme. For healthcare. It's health insurance.

It's not. If you don't pay your insurance, you don't get the benefit. If you don't pay NICs, no one is going to stop you from receiving free health care.

It's a cut above an insurance scheme - it's free, universal health care, and it is undeniably founded on socialist democratic principles.

 

[Boss_Blue]

No. That's ridiculously simplistic.

The NHS, when funded properly, is simply a huge health insurance system. The principle was, at its inception, that everyone paid their NI stamp (NI stands for "National Insurance" ffs) and in return everyone could claim healthcare when needed.

It's not a socialist brainwave, its an insurance scheme. For healthcare. It's health insurance.

I haven't got the energy tonight to pick apart this nonsense with a history lesson so will simply lol