Current Affairs The Labour Party

[peteblue]

Why would people be so anti freedom of movement?

why just with the EU ?......

 

[Mrk]

i'm sorry that just isn't true. I live in Pendle and have lived in Burnley. When i was young the main town in Pendle (Nelson) was lovely, vibrant shopping centre, spotless streets, plenty of pubs and cafes etc.

Now? complete dump, all the wealthy and middle class have moved out of it. It now has no high street, 1 pub (thats a shithole).

The mass influx of Eastern Europeans tipped people over the edge, people don't hate them or anything it's just they don't have much money, so don't spend in the town.

The slide started by the mass influx of Pakistanis, in the 60's and 70's. Unfortunately for towns liker above the Pakistanis that came over were the poor ones, that again had little money.

And yet are a fantastic credit to our country and in the whole have contributed greatly. That generation of immigrants have contributed immeasurably more than they have 'taken away' (as if such a thing is even possible).

When it comes to the slow decline of industrial towns and cities, immigration is a complete red herring. They are victims of technology and changes in human behaviour that have occurred in most if not all modern western economies.

 

[davek]

i'm sorry that just isn't true. I live in Pendle and have lived in Burnley. When i was young the main town in Pendle (Nelson) was lovely, vibrant shopping centre, spotless streets, plenty of pubs and cafes etc.

Now? complete dump, all the wealthy and middle class have moved out of it. It now has no high street, 1 pub (thats a shithole).

The mass influx of Eastern Europeans tipped people over the edge, people don't hate them or anything it's just they don't have much money, so don't spend in the town.

The slide started by the mass influx of Pakistanis, in the 60's and 70's. Unfortunately for towns liker above the Pakistanis that came over were the poor ones, that again had little money.

So degradation comes as a result of immigration? Is that what you're saying?

 

[arminisgod]

So degradation comes as a result of immigration? Is that what you're saying?

it has played a vital part in areas like mine.

Towns and cities are very different when it comes to immigration

 

[davek]

it has played a vital part in areas like mine.

Towns and cities are very different when it comes to immigration

How, in particular, do they degrade the place?

 

[peteblue]

And yet are a fantastic credit to our country and in the whole have contributed greatly. That generation of immigrants have contributed immeasurably more than they have 'taken away' (as if such a thing is even possible).

When it comes to the slow decline of industrial towns and cities, immigration is a complete red herring. They are victims of technology and changes in human behaviour that have occurred in most if not all modern western economies.

So degradation comes as a result of immigration? Is that what you're saying?

it has played a vital part in areas like mine.

Towns and cities are very different when it comes to immigration

Immigration is not the issue, Its the level of immigration that is. Nelsons population is about 10,000 less than 100 years ago. It’s pretty well split 50/50 white/ Pakistani, white flight has taken place and housing costs peanuts. In a city it can be integrated easily, in a small town it causes problems. Nelson has about 30,000 people, it has 2 pubs and a dozen Mosques. Our village and the next has about 1000 people and 2 pubs. So for the people of Nelson everything has changed, good or bad, but it’s changed, and that is the point I believe he is making.....

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Immigration is not the issue, Its the level of immigration that is. Nelsons population is about 10,000 less than 100 years ago. It’s pretty well split 50/50 white/ Pakistani, white flight has taken place and housing costs peanuts. In a city it can be integrated easily, in a small town it causes problems. Nelson has about 30,000 people, it has 2 pubs and a dozen Mosques. Our village and the next has about 1000 people and 2 pubs. So for the people of Nelson everything has changed, good or bad, but it’s changed, and that is the point I believe he is making.....

For sure people don’t like change, especially when they’re not in control of it, and a lot of towns have experienced large changes in demographics in recent years. Its perfectly understandable, however, It’s not an excuse to scapegoat those that have moved into the area though is it?

 

[arminisgod]

How, in particular, do they degrade the place?

They are poor people, and sadly poor people can't afford to spend in town centres. Sadly and i'll no doubt be called a racist etc the Pakistani's that have moved into East Lancs are poor and very religion based.

People in towns like mine have seen thriving town centres gone because it has coincided with mass immigration. Muslims won't drink in pubs, don't eat in restaurants. They haven't got much money and have very large families, which in turn makes them poorer.

So you have a town centre with no investment, you have over crowded houses that have been left to look like dumps really. If you have any money you won't live in a town like that.

People move out... pubs can't trade... restaurants shut down... house prices plummet... it's a cycle. And a cycle thats started in areas like mine since immigration.

 

[arminisgod]

For sure people don’t like change, especially when they’re not in control of it, and a lot of towns have experienced large changes in demographics in recent years. Its perfectly understandable, however, It’s not an excuse to scapegoat those that have moved into the area though is it?

nobody is scapegoating them. If people are poor they can't afford to live beyond their means. Everyone gets that. But if you live in a nicer area close to them.. would you want that to happen to your town?

 

[peteblue]

For sure people don’t like change, especially when they’re not in control of it, and a lot of towns have experienced large changes in demographics in recent years. Its perfectly understandable, however, It’s not an excuse to scapegoat those that have moved into the area though is it?

Of course not. It’s just people who are now entitled to live here. But let’s not pretend that all is harmony and light. It’s difficult for some people to adapt, both white and Pakistani, and ignoring the difficulties does no one any good....

 

[Mrk]

Immigration is not the issue, Its the level of immigration that is. Nelsons population is about 10,000 less than 100 years ago. It’s pretty well split 50/50 white/ Pakistani, white flight has taken place and housing costs peanuts. In a city it can be integrated easily, in a small town it causes problems. Nelson has about 30,000 people, it has 2 pubs and a dozen Mosques. Our village and the next has about 1000 people and 2 pubs. So for the people of Nelson everything has changed, good or bad, but it’s changed, and that is the point I believe he is making.....

That’s all well and good but I don’t see the issue (in an economic sense, anyway) when it comes to the level of immigration. The reason local people leave towns isn’t because immigrants move in, it’s because they’re comparatively educated to a much better level, have much greater opportunities and are more willing/able to move to cities at a younger age than the generations before them. This would occur with or without immigration. This internal migration leaves a vacuum in these towns and cities, making them attractive places for aspiring immigrants to start a life due to the lower cost of living and more competitive job market.

People don’t like change - that’s normal. But the issue of immigration is horrendously oversimplified, which leads to people thinking immigrants pose a threat to them, either socially or economically. They don’t.

 

[peteblue]

That’s all well and good but I don’t see the issue (in an economic sense, anyway) when it comes to the level of immigration. The reason local people leave towns isn’t because immigrants move in, it’s because they’re comparatively educated to a much better level, have much greater opportunities and are more willing/able to move to cities at a younger age than the generations before them. This would occur with or without immigration. This internal migration leaves a vacuum in these towns and cities, making them attractive places for aspiring immigrants to start a life due to the lower cost of living and more competitive job market.

People don’t like change - that’s normal. But the issue of immigration is horrendously oversimplified, which leads to people thinking immigrants pose a threat to them, either socially or economically. They don’t.

Why do you think people from towns should or even want to move to cities. Cities are mostly crap with lower standards of living. Towns like Nelson leave a population that has not integrated and a population that feels something has inexorably changed.....

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

How, in particular, do they degrade the place?

Immigrants shop at Amazon and other such like internet offerings. Once upon time people went down pub to chew the fat football politics and such like, that is until the immigrant came along and changed everything. People just sit at home with beverage hitting keys taping screens. Horrible immigrants, stop the immigrant.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Immigrants shop at Amazon and other such like internet offerings. Once upon time people went down pub to chew the fat football politics and such like, that is until the immigrant came along and changed everything. People just sit at home with beverage hitting keys taping screens. Horrible immigrants, stop the immigrant.

Very good

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Immigrants shop at Amazon and other such like internet offerings. Once upon time people went down pub to chew the fat football politics and such like, that is until the immigrant came along and changed everything. People just sit at home with beverage hitting keys taping screens. Horrible immigrants, stop the immigrant.

Pubs closing cos people can’t afford beer so go to supermarkets? IMMIGRANTS