Current Affairs The Labour Party

[davek]

TBF that assumes that the problem here is that it’s “the Corbyn legacy” that is turning people off.

There isn’t that much evidence that’s the case - most of the disconnect seems to be the old “Labour no longer represents me / my interests”, which dates back far longer than Corbyn.

The 2017 Election looks now to be what it was: the last time the LP re-connected with it's base in any meaninbgful way.

The base deserted the LP again in 2019 as a result of Brexit and the party taking the Starmer led policy of fighting the outcome of the referendum.

No real surprise that the architect of the 2019 defeat is still getting his arse kicked by people who dont believe in him and his idea of what the LP now represents. They know it was him and not Corbyn who ballsed that election up for Labour, despite all the BS commentary shoved down our throats by the media and LP right wing about Corbyn being toxic on the doorstep over the 'anti-semitism' big lie.

 

[Black Belt Jones]

That's where Starmer has so far failed. Things like taking the knee with Rayner for a photo op, or going John Lewis for a wallpaper spot 'for the memes'.

Labour can't win by going hard left, because there's no vote there. They can't win by appealing to the minority. It's why I laughed at the idea that Corbyn represents in any way a working class voter in Merseyside; he didn't. The base Labour electorate now are still obviously the poorer in society, but by and large these people are aspirational and don't want hand outs or the destruction of capitalism. They aren't on Twitter celebrating Karl Marx's birthday. Instead they want a plan to get on the property ladder and so on.

It should have been fairly easy for Starmer - all he had to do was appear competent and gut the party of the weirdos that had infested it. Stand for something, have people believe he could lead. He's failed spectacularly in that goal.

Failed spectacularly? Very post-match thread take that - now is not the time to be wetting the bed with Starmer IMHO. He wasn't as good as his polling suggested last year, and he's not as bad as it currently is right now. Labour are getting crushed by the country awakening from the covid nightmare and he just needs to gut it out as events right now will not decide the election. The economic aftermath of covid and brexit very much will, though - that is the battleground. Plus the Corbyn fiasco and brexit decision receding in the rear view mirror is like 30 red seats back before you even start with Starmer personally.

Problem for him right now is that just keeping your head down isn't a viable strategy for leader of the opposition, as politics is a game of attack - if you're not aggressively trying to move up you're going backwards. But this needs a cool head - his position is inferior but still reasonable so needs solid play. If he starts panicking with wild policy suggestions or listening to twitter then things really will go to [Poor language removed].

 

[Tubey]

Failed spectacularly? Very post-match thread take that - now is not the time to be wetting the bed with Starmer IMHO. He wasn't as good as his polling suggested last year, and he's not as bad as it currently is right now. Labour are getting crushed by the country awakening from the covid nightmare and he just needs to gut it out as events right now will not decide the election. The economic aftermath of covid and brexit very much will, though - that is the battleground. Plus the Corbyn fiasco and brexit decision receding in the rear view mirror is like 30 red seats back before you even start with Starmer personally.

Problem for him right now is that just keeping your head down isn't a viable strategy for leader of the opposition, as politics is a game of attack - if you're not aggressively trying to move up you're going backwards. But this needs a cool head - his position is inferior but still reasonable so needs solid play. If he starts panicking with wild policy suggestions or listening to twitter then things really will go to [Poor language removed].

It's why I said "so far". He can recover, but his performance thus far, even when you factor in the circumstances, has been dreadful. That John Lewis thing inparticular made me cringe very, very hard, and when you see that, clearly advised by incompetent spin doctors, then it's hard to keep the faith with him.

 

[tsubaki]

It's why I said "so far". He can recover, but his performance thus far, even when you factor in the circumstances, has been dreadful. That John Lewis thing inparticular made me cringe very, very hard, and when you see that, clearly advised by incompetent spin doctors, then it's hard to keep the faith with him.

.... and that’s what he needs to change. The people he surrounds himself with are serial failures.

 

[dwightschrute]

Labour have been shedding votes for 20 years and are finitio

The centrist bores can laugh at Corbyn but I bet Labour never get 262 seats and surpass his 2017 result again

SNP have a stranglehold on Scotland and Plaid will hopefully become the biggest party in Wales in the next 5-10 years

 

[Black Belt Jones]

Maybe the problem isn't with 'the left' and maybe it's not with the 'centrists' either - maybe Labour is just a dying party that had a solid and somewhat admirable cause and purpose in the early-to-mid 20th century, but no longer appeals to enough people in a modern, aspirational and globalised world?

You look within labour in isolation, plus how things are sitting with the FPTP arithmetic, and there are fundamental, massive problems. But compare them to the other major political party in the UK and it becomes less meaningful. The Tories are riding high in rude electoral health despite parts of their ideology being so hateful that a significant proportion of people will refuse to even admit voting for them. Repellent en masse to anyone younger than 50.

IOW pointing at this one arse cheek and saying how ugly it looks is an interesting conversation - genuinely, nearly everyone on here has their own ideas on what labour should look like. But by definition it can only be half the story.

 

[Mrk]

.... and that’s what he needs to change. The people he surrounds himself with are serial failures.

To be fair, would be hard for him to find somebody within the Labour party who isn't a serial failure.

 

[Tramps_mate]

Labour have been shedding votes for 20 years and are finitio

The centrist bores can laugh at Corbyn but I bet Labour never get 262 seats and surpass his 2017 result again

SNP have a stranglehold on Scotland and Plaid will hopefully become the biggest party in Wales in the next 5-10 years

Agree. Its going to take someone special to lead Labour again. Starmer is no way Labour leader material. I cant stand the man.

 

[Connor]

 

[Black Belt Jones]

It's why I said "so far". He can recover, but his performance thus far, even when you factor in the circumstances, has been dreadful. That John Lewis thing inparticular made me cringe very, very hard, and when you see that, clearly advised by incompetent spin doctors, then it's hard to keep the faith with him.

It barely registered with me tbh - even if you thought it was absolutely tin-eared IDK how you can take that as evidence of some deep-rooted strategic incompetence. I think it's just one of those things if you've made your mind up on him you'd see it as more evidence of his incapability, and vice versa, it's not a tipping point either way.

 

[Mrk]

Great to see Manchester showing their support for a former New Labour man who is a big fan of Keir Starmer. A clear message to the party.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Labour should probably get him back into Westminster and on the front bench. He's one of the most capable people in the party.

He will get a really good personal vote I'd say, so hard to say exactly what it means on a wider scale.

 

[Tubey]

It barely registered with me tbh - even if you thought it was absolutely tin-eared IDK how you can take that as evidence of some deep-rooted strategic incompetence. I think it's just one of those things if you've made your mind up on him you'd see it as more evidence of his incapability, and vice versa, it's not a tipping point either way.

I haven't made my mind up on him - if anything I was delighted he won, given Long-Bailey was the alternative.

First few months he was making the right noises, then he fell off a cliff IMO. Lot of that is due to COVID but not all.

 

[dannyboy]

Good post.
Spot on when you say there is no appetite for hard left policies regardless of how much they believe there is. Also about normal people being aspirational for themselves and their kids. What the past (and current) Labour leaders have also missed is that the average working class person is far more patrotic than they could ever believe. Instead Labour sneer at patriotism (as do some posters on here) and brand it as 'Little Englanders' & zenophobic bigots which is a huge own goal. Starmer and his recent focus groups have finally realised this, but hanging out a union jack everytime you give a speech doesn't really cut it either. Hence the appeal for the Tories by working class voters. As you say, all they need is some sensible policies put across in a credible manner by a few credible people and they can begin to move forward. Can they do that? On current efforts it doesn't look like it.

The problem is that the debate has shifted so much that what is considered hard left policies are actually just pretty normal in a lot of places.

Good policies for me would include the government embarking on a real house building programme to drive down prices and make homes more affordable. I'd also love to see more done on zero hour contracts because there's absolutely no safety net if the money/work dries up.

 

[dannyboy]

Indeed, so the key for Labour is policies that improve the means of the lower and working classes whilst not threatening the middle classes. And that includes not just taxing the rich, because people aren't stupid; they realise that if the rich go elsewhere, the harm hits everyone. It's a balancing act, so the battleground for Labour should be one of competency. That's where Johnson and the Tories are vulnerable, combined with sleaze.

The levelling up agenda is so dangerous, because if the Tories actually did that, it truly would be armageddon for Labour. If they fail and Labour present a realistic, competent program of bringing people up instead of levelling everyone down, they'd have a shot. To do that means the centre ground politically - it simply has to be a broad church approach. Left wing ideology has no place.

There is always a place for left wing ideology. It's why Boris Johnson embraced so much of its rhetoric at the last election. For me, it's the centre ground that is a waste land right now. What ideas are the likes of Andrew Adonis etc going to offer the people of Hartlepool to make them consider voting Labour?