Current Affairs The Labour Party

[dannyboy]

That will be vax related.

It's also people clocking onto Labour having absolutely no vision. We're not Boris Johnson and we're not Jeremy Corbyn slogans won't win you elections.

 

[mahermi1]

No mate, I only voted Labour until Thatcher arrived......but I take your point.....

Ugh well back to the Everton forum for me.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Maybe if the party united behind Sir Keir that Labour % would change. Amount of animosity and in fighting towards the leadership no wonder many people are still not convinced to jump back on board.

 

[roydo]

It's also people clocking onto Labour having absolutely no vision. We're not Boris Johnson and we're not Jeremy Corbyn slogans won't win you elections.

I just think Starmer/Labour are in an impossible position. Pretty much the entire country has dialled out of politics, its covid/vax/masks etc etc.

I mean he can say we locked down a week late or opened up too early, but most just dont really care. He cannot compare the Governments response to any thing he did in the last pandemic, and pretty much every similar western democracy has had pretty similar outcomes.

In short, Covid isnt a political chess piece, at the moment anyrate.

edit. And the vax roll out has been terrific.

 

[dannyboy]

I just think Starmer/Labour are in an impossible position. Pretty much the entire country has dialled out of politics, its covid/vax/masks etc etc.

I mean he can say we locked down a week late or opened up too early, but most just dont really care. He cannot compare the Governments response to any thing he did in the last pandemic, and pretty much every similar western democracy has had pretty similar outcomes.

In short, Covid isnt a political chess piece, at the moment anyrate.

edit. And the vax roll out has been terrific.

One of the worst death rates in the world, gaff after gaff from the government and Starmer has just clapped along from the sidelines.

The people in charge of Labour are of the same ilk as the ones who had the reins between 2008 and 2015. They had nothing to offer then and they don't have anything to offer now. At least the Tories have a vision. The next 4 years are going to be painful.

 

[roydo]

One of the worst death rates in the world, gaff after gaff from the government and Starmer has just clapped along from the sidelines.

The people in charge of Labour are of the same ilk as the ones who had the reins between 2008 and 2015. They had nothing to offer then and they don't have anything to offer now. At least the Tories have a vision. The next 4 years are going to be painful.

What else, at the time, could he actually do?

Despite the fact that I post in the CA forum quite a bit, Brexit aside, I am pretty unpolitical, insofar that I dont really care that much for most of them. And deffo isnt a staunch supporter of either.

And as such, what I see from my bubble, is a way out, and rightly or wrongly, I see little value in any political opponent trying to make political capitol out of the situation as it is.

If he/they, consider their stance post covid, that could be the vision you desire. I am unsure if Starmer has the talent/leadership to do that though.

 

[mahermi1]

I just think Starmer/Labour are in an impossible position. Pretty much the entire country has dialled out of politics, its covid/vax/masks etc etc.

I mean he can say we locked down a week late or opened up too early, but most just dont really care. He cannot compare the Governments response to any thing he did in the last pandemic, and pretty much every similar western democracy has had pretty similar outcomes.

In short, Covid isnt a political chess piece, at the moment anyrate.

edit. And the vax roll out has been terrific.

Dont worry peoples conscience will be pricked when Labour remind them of Boris saying, w'ell have done well to keep the deaths below 20,000......

 

[roydo]

Dont worry peoples conscience will be pricked when Labour remind them of Boris saying, w'ell have done well to keep the deaths below 20,000......

I think in time, it will be.

But it was JVT who, early days, when explaining the actual gravity of the possible situation, said "20000 deaths might be considered a good outcome".

For clarity, I am not defending Johnson, I am explaining the pretty hopeless position Starmer has been facing.

 

[dannyboy]

What else, at the time, could he actually do?

Despite the fact that I post in the CA forum quite a bit, Brexit aside, I am pretty unpolitical, insofar that I dont really care that much for most of them. And deffo isnt a staunch supporter of either.

And as such, what I see from my bubble, is a way out, and rightly or wrongly, I see little value in any political opponent trying to make political capitol out of the situation as it is.

If he/they, consider their stance post covid, that could be the vision you desire. I am unsure if Starmer has the talent/leadership to do that though.

He should have been telling every single person how badly the government has handled the crisis. We sit here with schools shut whilst the rest of Europe's children are in education.

The fact we have one of the worst death rates in the world is enough ammunition by itself to take apart Johnson and his cabinet of clowns but instead Starmer has shown more interest in taking the fight to his own party.

People are going to continue to leave Labour unless they can give people some reasons to vote for them. Right now, I'm struggling to think of any other than at least they aren't the Tories, and where is that going to win votes other than Merseyside and the other big cities?

 

[roydo]

He should have been telling every single person how badly the government has handled the crisis. We sit here with schools shut whilst the rest of Europe's children are in education.

The fact we have one of the worst death rates in the world is enough ammunition by itself to take apart Johnson and his cabinet of clowns but instead Starmer has shown more interest in taking the fight to his own party.

People are going to continue to leave Labour unless they can give people some reasons to vote for them. Right now, I'm struggling to think of any other than at least they aren't the Tories, and where is that going to win votes other than Merseyside and the other big cities?

I cant comment on the internal mechanics of the LP, cos for one, I havnt a clue, and second, I couldnt care less. Same with any party.

But your last paragraph is the deal. Trouble is, the answer is, or at least seems to be, very unpalatable to the actual LP.

 

[peteblue]

Dont worry peoples conscience will be pricked when Labour remind them of Boris saying, w'ell have done well to keep the deaths below 20,000......

Sure he said 200,000......

 

[roydo]

Sure he said 200,000......

JVT?

Nah, deffo 20000. He was also the one who said, early days, that we may need to learn how to live with this.

edit. Soz, thought it was the CV thread.

 

[peteblue]

JVT?

Nah, deffo 20000. He was also the one who said, early days, that we may need to learn how to live with this.

edit. Soz, thought it was the CV thread.

Little political jest mate, not serious....

 

[mahermi1]

I think in time, it will be.

But it was JVT who, early days, when explaining the actual gravity of the possible situation, said "20000 deaths might be considered a good outcome".

For clarity, I am not defending Johnson, I am explaining the pretty hopeless position Starmer has been facing.

I see your point, but at the moment the government is basking in the glory of the NHS and the vaccine rollout.

 

[tsubaki]

He should have been telling every single person how badly the government has handled the crisis. We sit here with schools shut whilst the rest of Europe's children are in education.

The fact we have one of the worst death rates in the world is enough ammunition by itself to take apart Johnson and his cabinet of clowns but instead Starmer has shown more interest in taking the fight to his own party.

People are going to continue to leave Labour unless they can give people some reasons to vote for them. Right now, I'm struggling to think of any other than at least they aren't the Tories, and where is that going to win votes other than Merseyside and the other big cities?

The problem is that they (the people around Starmer - not so much the front bench, but the people running the party again) are fundamentally crap at politics - they were under Miliband, they were under Corbyn (thats how he got in), and they are now. They learnt from and worshipped (from afar, mostly) people who were crap at politics, people who confused Blair bribing press barons with them having ability. The only things they've learnt in twenty years is how to protect their own positions (irrespective of the damage that doing that does) and how to critique the leadership via the right wing press - thats why they've done it to every single Labour leader, including Blair - and are doing it now to Starmer.

Basically they cannot begin to formalize a response like that you call for, or indeed any response on any topic that normal people can understand, because they completely lack the ability to do it. They are the problem.