Current Affairs The Labour Party

[peteblue]

Ahhh I saw it just earlier as well. Scottish Labour are in real trouble. Found themselves outmanoeuvred by the SNP and don’t appear to have a strong, charismatic leader. Stronger socialist sentiments over the border and Labour’s shift to the centre, created a bit of a political vacuum which the SNP have hoovered up.
Miliband going north with Cameron and Clegg before the independence vote was absolute suicide. Should have kept more of a neutral stance.
You know who the Tory leader is there these days?

Ruth Davidson has come back into leading the Parliament, but there was some other fella, complete no mark as Leader. I still maintain she would be a great PM.....

 

[Billy Dean]

Nah she left when she saw the direction the Tories were going. Said she had parental duties but it was pretty obvious. She’s a pretty crafty politician, who appears to have some principles which is unusual for your modern day Tory. Expect her to turn up again at some point also. Was touted as a future leader and @peteblue was a fan if I remember rightly.
I dunno about the SNP. They have some really good MPs and MSPs and despite the many critics south of the border, Sturgeon is well liked and crucially, appears to actually be competent Labour are rudderless and ‘Tory’ is still a dirty word for many. Can see them maintaining power for a decade or more.

Sturgeon is a bit of an outlier in British politics in that she seems quite rational and competent.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Sturgeon is a bit of an outlier in British politics in that she seems quite rational and competent.

Also seems to be slightly human and is able to express compassion, which is unusual at the minute.
The fact that the right wing press vilify her at every opportunity shows she’s doing something right

 

[peteblue]

Sturgeon is a bit of an outlier in British politics in that she seems quite rational and competent.

I see George Galloway is suggesting that Gordon Brown should head up Labour in Scotland. Now I seriously doubt this would happen, but it would give the SNP a run for their money......

 

[tsubaki]

I see George Galloway is suggesting that Gordon Brown should head up Labour in Scotland. Now I seriously doubt this would happen, but it would give the SNP a run for their money......

no it wouldn’t - unless you subscribe to the notion that the person who broke something is the best one to fix it

 

[davek]

I see George Galloway is suggesting that Gordon Brown should head up Labour in Scotland. Now I seriously doubt this would happen, but it would give the SNP a run for their money......

The only way back for Labour in Scotland is for that party to acknowledge the will of most of its people who describe themselves as 'progressive' and get behind independence. The LP needs to become a nationalist party up there and fight for another referendum. If it did that then it'd revive its fortunes very quickly. A left of centre LP in an independent Scotland would have a lot of power and eventually dominate post-independence. At the moment it's consigned to the sidelines as the main nationalist and unionist camps are defined and they are a pathetic muted voice offering nothing but more crumbs from the Westminster table.

 

[tsubaki]

The only way back for Labour in Scotland is for that party to acknowledge the will of most of its people who describe themselves as 'progressive' and get behind independence. The LP needs to become a nationalist party up there and fight for another referendum. If it did that then it'd revive its fortunes very quickly. A left of centre LP in an independent Scotland would have a lot of power and eventually dominate post-independence. At the moment it's consigned to the sidelines as the main nationalist and unionist camps are defined and they are a pathetic muted voice offering nothing but more crumbs from the Westminster table.

Sorry, dave but I think this is entirely wrong - any attempt to paint itself as pro-independence is going to quickly fail because the SNP can offer a much better case for that.

Of course, if independence is obtained then the SNP will probably split afterwards, mission having been accomplished and all that.

A better stance for Labour in Scotland would be to point out that whilst the union exists, they (Scottish Labour) are the only way of getting the Tories out of office, that voting SNP in Westminster elections is in Murdoch’s (and the Tories) interests, hence why he backs them. Emphasise the importance of solidarity amongst the working class north and south of the border. If necessary, ask SNP voters to consciously vote differently in elections for Holyrood and Westminster.

Most importantly, get rid of the shower who wrecked that bit of the party in the first place.

 

[Tubey]

Sorry, dave but I think this is entirely wrong - any attempt to paint itself as pro-independence is going to quickly fail because the SNP can offer a much better case for that.

Of course, if independence is obtained then the SNP will probably split afterwards, mission having been accomplished and all that.

A better stance for Labour in Scotland would be to point out that whilst the union exists, they (Scottish Labour) are the only way of getting the Tories out of office, that voting SNP in Westminster elections is in Murdoch’s (and the Tories) interests, hence why he backs them. Emphasise the importance of solidarity amongst the working class north and south of the border. If necessary, ask SNP voters to consciously vote differently in elections for Holyrood and Westminster.

Most importantly, get rid of the shower who wrecked that bit of the party in the first place.

Spot on.

Simply have to paint the SNP as Tory enablers. They do that by stating that another referendum in the immediate future isn't possible, so vote for Labour until it is.

 

[davek]

Sorry, dave but I think this is entirely wrong - any attempt to paint itself as pro-independence is going to quickly fail because the SNP can offer a much better case for that.

Of course, if independence is obtained then the SNP will probably split afterwards, mission having been accomplished and all that.

A better stance for Labour in Scotland would be to point out that whilst the union exists, they (Scottish Labour) are the only way of getting the Tories out of office, that voting SNP in Westminster elections is in Murdoch’s (and the Tories) interests, hence why he backs them. Emphasise the importance of solidarity amongst the working class north and south of the border. If necessary, ask SNP voters to consciously vote differently in elections for Holyrood and Westminster.

Most importantly, get rid of the shower who wrecked that bit of the party in the first place.

That appeal will fall on deaf ears.

Independence has to be achived first. That lances the nationalist boil, but only if the LP in Scotland dont stand in its way and tar themsleves forever as the party that opposed nationhood - which IS coming in any case.

 

[orchard]

That appeal will fall on deaf ears.

Independence has to be achived first. That lances the nationalist boil, but only if the LP in Scotland dont stand in its way and tar themsleves forever as the party that opposed nationhood - which IS coming in any case.

They could appeal to a more mature application of federation rather than independence.

 

[davek]

They could appeal to a more mature application of federation rather than independence.

I doubt Westminster would ever countenance that. A federal state would need to see English regions taking on their own powers and being ruled by their own parliament. No central government is going to agree to that dilution of power. And if you just had a federal UK of England, Wales, Scotland, N.I. it'd be pretty unbalanced.

 

[roydo]

That appeal will fall on deaf ears.

Independence has to be achived first. That lances the nationalist boil, but only if the LP in Scotland dont stand in its way and tar themsleves forever as the party that opposed nationhood - which IS coming in any case.

Excuse my ignorance, but if the Labour Party in Scotland partied to the independence music, how would that translate into seats in Westminster?

As in, post independence, Labour could win every seat in Scotland, and not have one of them in the HOC.

 

[davek]

Excuse my ignorance, but if the Labour Party in Scotland partied to the independence music, how would that translate into seats in Westminster?

As in, post independence, Labour could win every seat in Scotland, and not have one of them in the HOC.

They wouldn't be a westminster party. They'd be in Holyrood and part of another nation.

 

[roydo]

They wouldn't be a westminster party. They'd be in Holyrood and part of another nation.

But surely that weakens Labour in the HOC/England?

Thats what I cant get.

Ah, soz, you must live in Scotland. Gotcha.

 

[orchard]

I doubt Westminster would ever countenance that. A federal state would need to see English regions taking on their own powers and being ruled by their own parliament. No central government is going to agree to that dilution of power. And if you just had a federal UK of England, Wales, Scotland, N.I. it'd be pretty unbalanced.

You're right, the English would also need their regions to federalise too, but I can see a lot of the population in the NE, NW, Midlands and SW being okay with that...