Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Jebus_lives]

Certainly with him, that’s after all how that “I predicted Coronavirus” fib emerged, him feeling that he had to come out with something

Covers one lie to create another. The one aspect of his credibility left was that he was an expert strategist and now you have to question that because he's falsified a blog and told people he saw this coming.

The one thing I wish people would be sharper on is the detail and timeframes, because people can't hold the information in their heads. But if you can immediately reply back when someone says 'the guidelines said this' when it's demonstrably untrue, it is much more effective.

 

[tsubaki]

Covers one lie to create another. The one aspect of his credibility left was that he was an expert strategist and now you have to question that because he's falsified a blog and told people he saw this coming.

The one thing I wish people would be sharper on is the detail and timeframes, because people can't hold the information in their heads. But if you can immediately reply back when someone says 'the guidelines said this' when it's demonstrably untrue, it is much more effective.

Worth pointing out on that last point that Downing Street had all their phones off them before going in

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Unfortunately it IS. Neo-liberal scum entered the party in the 1980s and took over a workers party to replace it's egalitarian core beliefs and to drag the party over to the right to worship market forces - and now those Blairites are back in contention under the protective wing of "Sir" Keir Starmer, the former DPP who shileded the Establishment when in office. The same useless nobhead who's let the taking of of 63,000 lives in the last 3 months go by withoiut landing a glove on the murderers who took them.

The reason to varying degrees the two main parties have generally fought over the middle ground might well just be because the vast majority of the UK population are not at the extremes either way. If you want the Socialist party it exists. Same for the Communist party, likewise UKIP and the BNP. The thing is that what these parties stand for doesn't reflect the majority. If you are centre left then Labour might be the party for you, if not see above. Centre right doesn't feel to clear at the moment.

 

[tsubaki]

The reason to varying degrees the two main parties have generally fought over the middle ground might well just be because the vast majority of the UK population are not at the extremes either way. If you want the Socialist party it exists. Same for the Communist party, likewise UKIP and the BNP. The thing is that what these parties stand for doesn't reflect the majority. If you are centre left then Labour might be the party for you, if not see above. Centre right doesn't feel to clear at the moment.

That isn’t the case at all.

What both parties and the political class did is move the definition of the “centre” over time, so that policies that even Thatcher followed (the university grant system for example, or nationalised rail) had by Corbyn’s day become absolute Marxist extremism. This wasn’t ideological so much as them shouting as loud as they could that their policies were rational therefore everyone else’s was irrational.

Obviously though this was only superficial, so whenever “common sense” dictated the previously crazy became sensible again (as we’ve seen with the railways, which are currently nationalised again).

 

[peteblue]

I agree with you about a fair bit, @davek , and I've still not made my mind up about Starmer. I'm not buying the hype but I'm not writing him off, either. Let's wait and see which direction policy takes, shall we?

BUT

Why would you give up a career as a QC to go into politics?

Not for the money or prestige, that's for sure.

I think he was also a crap lawyer.....

 

[Blue 1]

I think he was also a crap lawyer.....

Well that's a surprise.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

That isn’t the case at all.

What both parties and the political class did is move the definition of the “centre” over time, so that policies that even Thatcher followed (the university grant system for example, or nationalised rail) had by Corbyn’s day become absolute Marxist extremism. This wasn’t ideological so much as them shouting as loud as they could that their policies were rational therefore everyone else’s was irrational.

Obviously though this was only superficial, so whenever “common sense” dictated the previously crazy became sensible again (as we’ve seen with the railways, which are currently nationalised again).

No, I think its quite clear that the UK population are not on the extremes. Maybe we could do with a bit but sadly Joe public is a vanilla centrist on the whole.

 

[davek]

The reason to varying degrees the two main parties have generally fought over the middle ground might well just be because the vast majority of the UK population are not at the extremes either way. If you want the Socialist party it exists. Same for the Communist party, likewise UKIP and the BNP. The thing is that what these parties stand for doesn't reflect the majority. If you are centre left then Labour might be the party for you, if not see above. Centre right doesn't feel to clear at the moment.

Absurd commentary. Go and take a look at how and why the LP was established.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Absurd commentary. Go and take a look at how and why the LP was established.

I don't need to mate. I also understand the way the world looked at that time. The point stands.

 

[tsubaki]

No, I think its quite clear that the UK population are not on the extremes. Maybe we could do with a bit but sadly Joe public is a vanilla centrist on the whole.

Are they? How many people think PFI is a great idea, or outsourcing and professional politicians?

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Are they? How many people think PFI is a great idea, or outsourcing and professional politicians?

How many people vote for the Socialist party, BNP, Communists or the like is an easier measure.

 

[tsubaki]

How many people vote for the Socialist party, BNP, Communists or the like is an easier measure.

No it isn’t. How many people voted for nationalised railways and for the state to give them upwards of a thousand pounds a month?

 

[Aberblue]

Absurd commentary. Go and take a look at how and why the LP was established.

Obviously, circumstances haven't changed in any respect at all since 1900.

 

[davek]

Obviously, circumstances haven't changed in any respect at all since 1900.

It's not supposed to change form a party that opposes capitalism to one that champions it.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

No it isn’t. How many people voted for nationalised railways and for the state to give them upwards of a thousand pounds a month?

Yes it is. Its an obvious choice, if you want the Socialist Party or the like in power, you vote for them. They know that this will mean they finish nowhere so take a view that infiltrating and trying to change Labour into the Socialist Party is their best chance of success.