roydo
in memoriam - 1965-2024
He told Neil that replacing the shares in water and rail etc with government bonds isnt borrowing.
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He told Neil that replacing the shares in water and rail etc with government bonds isnt borrowing.
davek
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That's not what I've ever claimed. I said consistently that we're heading to hung parliament territory.
If you could just limit your analysis of me to what I actually posted, that'd be great.
Yes, he could do that but it wouldn’t lead to the attack dogs being called off, it would just lead to them ratcheting the abuse up a notch.
That guy Williamson in Derbyshire was spot on......we were far too apologetic about largely unfounded allegations of anti semitism from the getgo and instead of sating the propaganda beast it has only served to make it more ravenous hence the almost daily uncorroborated and unchallenged twaddle being printed in the right wing press and repeated slavishly as “news” on the BBC and on LBC.
I have yet to see evidence of anti Jewish behaviour from the Labour party.
I never saw any any when I was a party member nor when I was a trade union official at various conferences over the years.
That is not to say we don’t have any Jew haters in our ranks nor that they have not made disparaging remarks about Jews......I have no doubt there more anti semites in the Tory Party......and they should be rooted out of both parties.
But we know the real reason behind this.
Why Boris Johnson’s mate, that Rabbi bloke, has intervened,
It’s about Israel innit.
It is because Corbyn and the Labour movement are opposed to the Israeli mistreatment of Palestinians.
To the continued policy of settlements encroaching further into Palestinian territory.
In short, the definition of “anti-semitism” has been expanded beyond hatred or criticism of the Jewish religion.....if you criticise Israeli human rights abuses in Gaza then you are labelled “anti semite”.
It is designed to close down debate on these matters and alas it is a tactic which is working successfully throughout the western world.
And that is why they are panicking about Corbyn gaining power....British policy toward Israel will be much different.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
They dont. Not in anything like enough numbers.
People are weary of this tired fabricated BS. Either that, or they think "Tories and Islamaophobia and general hatred of all immigrants versus LP anti-semitism"...and go "ho-hum".
I agree, Dave.
“Islamophobia” from the Tories and “anti semitism” allegations about the Labour Party are not going to weigh much on the minds of the electorate on Thursday fortnight.
abelard
Player Valuation: £35m
Well, it is true in a narrow technical sense that issuing bonds is borrowing, but in the case of purchasing state assets it is a highly securitised form of borrowing because the value of the assets that are purchased are credited to balanced the ledger.
There was a very good article that explained this awhile back: https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/the-general-election.108019/page-199#post-7417882
Critiquing the premise that the state could do a better job running the railways is more plausible charge (although hands up those of us who even noticed when the state took over LNER for the second time in three years?)
But reporting on the 'cost' to the state of purchasing assets has been very misleading, 25% due to Corbyn hysteria getting clicks and 75% due to the press itself not understanding how macroeconomics work.
...sorry, Dave, I honestly don’t read every post on this thread. All I’ve ever been saying is Corbyn is a liability and the Party would be in a much better position with somebody else. I know you think differently. Be interesting if Labour have as many MPs after this election than they had before. I somehow doubt it.
I've experienced it on the left. I know exactly the type of belm you're talking about. I gave up on the local Palestine group I helped set up in the end as I got sick of arguing with divs who pinned all the worlds ills on "the bloody Zionists". There were only a couple of them but they were particularly loud and aggressive and thought they knew it all but actually knew very little. No talking to them.
Antisemitism is no more prevalent in the Labour party than it is in society at large. Less so, in fact. Yes, it exists. On the scale people are being led to believe? Not at all.
And Johnson's Rabbi mate knows it.
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
In that community they do, though. People like Pollard have been banging on about the left for years, and it has had an effect that is (or at least should be) obvious - people are actually scared now, which of course was the point all along.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
They add up to nothing. And you make the mistake of believing that all British Jews are pro-Israel and anti-Corbyn and anti-Labour. They are not.
His critics from that source merely have access to more media outlets.
How would you have liked them to campaign differently?
The problem is, as others have said, the Tories play politics on easy mode. Twas ever thus and it always will be.
Jib in lad
Player Valuation: £25m
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
I largely agree with you. Most Jewish people I meet are appalled at the tactics employed by a small section of right wing Jewish people (but in the main) mainly right wing gentiles. It has not damaged Corbyn, in fact quite the opposite, the accusation is so proposterous that it generally sees Corbyn rise in the polls. It's not hard for Britains leading anti-racist politicians to show he's not racist (who'd have guessed).
However the real value in these attacks goes beyond the electoral cycle. What it has done is normalise racism, and ultimately normally Conservative/right wing racism. The tories have been allowed to just ignore rampant Islamophobia (but also anti-semitism-like the guy making the holocaust jokes who was standing for office). It's also emboldening attacks on minorities from the right and giving some veneer of legitimacy to them.
Middle England and centrist discourse aren't moved by these attacks, but it makes extremists even more angry, and that is being utilised now in ever increasingly violent ways (I mean we have seen more than 1 pensioner attacked by right wingers in this campaign).
Thats the subtext behind this, from the gentiles who are leading this crusade.
Another genuine question Eggs, and I hope you don't think I'm getting on at you, but what vote share do you think would be a success for Labour this election? What is the figure he needs to get to for you to consider, maybe this guy is appealing to larger numbers of people than we had before?
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