Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Bruce Wayne]

I imagine the generations that follow them into OAPhood won't have as many gold-plated public sector pensions to sustain so that might bring it down a bit. I dunno, just taking a stab in the dark.

I just know the pensions my parents got for working in local government were bananas and those days are purported to have gone.

Maybe, but hopefully your parents will live for a little while longer yet. The maths have changed fundamentally since state pensions were introduced, both in terms of the life expectancy of people, the demographics of the population as a whole, and even the kind of jobs people typically do (with a huge shift towards service-related work). It's responsible to revisit the equation and see if it still makes sense, but politicians generally don't because those near to retirement age kick up a stink because they think that 'they've been paying in all their lives' (when that's not how pensions are funded), and older folk vote way more than younger folk, so they're quite happy to shift the burden for paying for the pensions onto the younger, working age generation.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You're a bit weird.

On one hand, you insist that the general population aren't educated enough to have been able to have made a sensible decision concerning our nation's membership of the EU.

And on the other hand, you insist that education isn't a right that people should be afforded in a kind and decent society.

Oh please. Everyone gets at least 10 years of free schooling. What else should be free? Plumbing certification? Your PhD? How about an MBA so someone can go on to be one of those horrible business people? They're all examples of education. What about your driving license or first aid? Will the rich pay for them all? Heck, companies invest around £8bn a year training their staff. Are you happy for them to invoice the government for that so we can have a kind and decent society?

 

[Number_25]

Oh please. Everyone gets at least 10 years of free schooling. What else should be free? Plumbing certification? Your PhD? How about an MBA so someone can go on to be one of those horrible business people? They're all examples of education. What about your driving license or first aid? Will the rich pay for them all?

You can honestly look at this and tell me that this is fine because I had the temerity to go for an education?

 

[thirdmantackle]

Ah, so the taxes that pay for the intellectual elite to go to university will somehow only come from the financial elite? Study after study highlights how graduates earn considerably more than non-graduates over their lifetimes, so it's really quite bizarre that Labour supporters think it progressive that the taxes from the non-graduates should contribute towards furthering that inequality. I wonder how many of those backers are just hoping for their education to be paid for by someone else?

Shouldn't education just be free for everyone up to say, diploma or degree level?
Isn't education a universal right?
How do people expect those from lower income families with bright and 'eager to get on in life children' to fund further education?
It hugely benefits society that more people are better educated.
You'd definitely have less ignorance when it comes to basic things like the governments policies over the last 10 years

 

[Bruce Wayne]

View attachment 72127
You can honestly look at this and tell me that this is fine because I had the temerity to go for an education?

It was your choice so who am I to argue with it? If I decided to get an MBA, the chances are it would cost me about the same amount (for a 1 year course). I very much doubt you would regard that as sufficiently worthy to warrant the state picking up the tab, and people quite happily do it after weighing up the pros and cons, just as the thousands of overseas students who pay a darn sight more for their degree than we do do likewise.

 

[thirdmantackle]

We've had free fees in Ireland for 25 years. Though fees are creeping back in.

It has hugely changed the workforce, as in most people going for a job now have degrees and many of them have masters

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Shouldn't education just be free for everyone up to say, diploma or degree level?
Isn't education a universal right?
How do people expect those from lower income families with bright and 'eager to get on in life children' to fund further education?
It hugely benefits society that more people are better educated.
You'd definitely have less ignorance when it comes to basic things like the governments policies over the last 10 years

You don't pay for your education until you're not classified as lower income.

 

[thirdmantackle]

It was your choice so who am I to argue with it? If I decided to get an MBA, the chances are it would cost me about the same amount (for a 1 year course). I very much doubt you would regard that as sufficiently worthy to warrant the state picking up the tab, and people quite happily do it after weighing up the pros and cons, just as the thousands of overseas students who pay a darn sight more for their degree than we do do likewise.

Would you prefer everyone didn't bother and just worked down the chippy?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

We've had free fees in Ireland for 25 years. Though fees are creeping back in.

It has hugely changed the workforce, as in most people going for a job now have degrees and many of them have masters

That's the case across the western world. Student numbers have gone up hugely in the UK, and this has certainly been the case among lower-income students, many more of whom are studying than when it was 'free'.

 

[Brennan]

View attachment 72127
You can honestly look at this and tell me that this is fine because I had the temerity to go for an education?

But why should other people pay for it ?

 

[Number_25]

But why should other people pay for it ?

Because a better educated society benefits all.

 

[nsno-chris]

View attachment 72127
You can honestly look at this and tell me that this is fine because I had the temerity to go for an education?

you aware of the cost when you signed up, you were aware of the contractual obligations and yet you agreed to it. And now moaning about it

 

[nsno-chris]

Because a better educated society benefits all.

how does your degree benefit me

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Would you prefer everyone didn't bother and just worked down the chippy?

Not at all, I think knowledge is a truly wonderful thing, and I personal invest several grand a year to maintain mine precisely because I value it. If you really think the state should pick up the tab for my Czech lessons though, well, I'm not sure you'd get many supporters

 

[Blue 1]

Maybe, but hopefully your parents will live for a little while longer yet. The maths have changed fundamentally since state pensions were introduced, both in terms of the life expectancy of people, the demographics of the population as a whole, and even the kind of jobs people typically do (with a huge shift towards service-related work). It's responsible to revisit the equation and see if it still makes sense, but politicians generally don't because those near to retirement age kick up a stink because they think that 'they've been paying in all their lives' (when that's not how pensions are funded), and older folk vote way more than younger folk, so they're quite happy to shift the burden for paying for the pensions onto the younger, working age generation.

Thanks, Bruce, but unfortunately my mum is literally on her death bed and my dad has diabetes.

There's another timebomb brewing with the amount of people my age with tiny or no pension, too. One thing I'll credit the coalition government with is pretty much forcing me to pay more into my company pension. 5% it is now I think. Too little too late though I fear, as it will be for many.