Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Tubey]

Yes mate, we get it, nationalisation is broadly popular - but we also get the fact that you need to detail how it's going to be paid for to do it.

"WE'RE GONNA NATIONALISE THE F'N LOT!" isn't the vote winner you think it is. People want logic, especially when the suspicion is that socialism as a whole doesn't have a clue as to how to balance the books.

Of them, I'd happily see the railways nationalised tomorrow for example. But I'd have to see a bulletproof plan as to how to do it as part of a cohesive government strategy.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Therein lies the problem with the modern Labour Party. Utter contempt for average voters who they view as not smart enough to understand their grand schemes.

And to be fair, in many instances they're probably right. The average voter wouldn't have the first clue about what's best for the NHS, much as they didn't really know what the EU was all about.

 

[Billy Dean]

Without knowing full details yet, from what I've read so far I'm a little disappointed in this especially if the consequence really would be the "abolishment" of private schools. Something a little bit more pragmatic is needed.

 

[zzr45]

And to be fair, in many instances they're probably right. The average voter wouldn't have the first clue about what's best for the NHS, much as they didn't really know what the EU was all about.

Get rid of the immigrants and we’ll all have a doctor each and a nurse straight out a carry on film with a large bosom.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yes mate, we get it, nationalisation is broadly popular - but we also get the fact that you need to detail how it's going to be paid for to do it.

"WE'RE GONNA NATIONALISE THE F'N LOT!" isn't the vote winner you think it is. People want logic, especially when the suspicion is that socialism as a whole doesn't have a clue as to how to balance the books.

Of them, I'd happily see the railways nationalised tomorrow for example. But I'd have to see a bulletproof plan as to how to do it as part of a cohesive government strategy.

That's the thing I suppose, and this schools debate is a good example. There isn't an army of saintly public sector folk twiddling their thumbs waiting to take over Eton, so in reality it will be the horrible, profit driven people who will be running those schools under public ownership, except now of course they'll be publicly owned so will be wonderful. It's the same with the railways, and whereas Labourites seem to think it's the profit motive that inherently makes something good or bad, the reality is really that it's the quality of the people running it that do so, and if you don't change the people then things are unlikely to change.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Get rid of the immigrants and we’ll all have a doctor each and a nurse straight out a carry on film with a large bosom.

The irony is that countries like Sweden are often touted as how Labour aren't far left, they're just like the cuddly nordics rather than the evil Russians, the totalitarian Chinese or the 'it's all the Americans fault' Venezuelans, when of course Sweden were among the first to implement free schools, and have about 1,000 of them now.

 

[Billy Dean]

That's the thing I suppose, and this schools debate is a good example. There isn't an army of saintly public sector folk twiddling their thumbs waiting to take over Eton, so in reality it will be the horrible, profit driven people who will be running those schools under public ownership, except now of course they'll be publicly owned so will be wonderful. It's the same with the railways, and whereas Labourites seem to think it's the profit motive that inherently makes something good or bad, the reality is really that it's the quality of the people running it that do so, and if you don't change the people then things are unlikely to change.

The privatisation of railways has been crap Bruce. We have one of the worst rail systems in western europe.

 

[abelard]

Therein lies the problem with the modern Labour Party. Utter contempt for average voters who they view as not smart enough to understand their grand schemes.

And to be fair, in many instances they're probably right. The average voter wouldn't have the first clue about what's best for the NHS, much as they didn't really know what the EU was all about.

So, in less than five posts we pivot from 'Labour hold the average voter in utter contempt' to 'Labour is wrong to implement policies that the average voter clearly supports because the average voter is stupid and should be held in utter contempt.'

At least try to keep your story straight? ; )

 

[The binman chronicles]

Get rid of the immigrants and we’ll all have a doctor each and a nurse straight out a carry on film with a large bosom.

Exactly, it's wall to wall foreigners in hospitals AND definitely not full of old people who voted for Brexit.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

That's the thing I suppose, and this schools debate is a good example. There isn't an army of saintly public sector folk twiddling their thumbs waiting to take over Eton, so in reality it will be the horrible, profit driven people who will be running those schools under public ownership, except now of course they'll be publicly owned so will be wonderful. It's the same with the railways, and whereas Labourites seem to think it's the profit motive that inherently makes something good or bad, the reality is really that it's the quality of the people running it that do so, and if you don't change the people then things are unlikely to change.

A prime example of this is the tremendous variance in quality of service and outcome across both the NHS and the public school network. If it was just a case of nationalise the lot and everything will be fine, there would be consistency across both, but that's not the case at all.

 

[The binman chronicles]

The privatisation of railways has been crap Bruce. We have one of the worst rail systems in western europe.

And what was it like before privatisation? I can tell you, just as crap.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The privatisation of railways has been crap Bruce. We have one of the worst rail systems in western europe.

Well that's not actually true is it? We actually have one of the safest and most punctual rail systems in Europe. We just don't have one of the cheapest.

 

[peteblue]

And to be fair, in many instances they're probably right. The average remainer wouldn't have the first clue about what's best for the NHS, much as they didn't really know what the EU was all about.

Fixed that for you.....

 

[Bruce Wayne]

So, in less than five posts we pivot from 'Labour hold the average voter in utter contempt' to 'Labour is wrong to implement policies that the average voter clearly supports because the average voter is stupid and should be held in utter contempt.'

At least try to keep your story straight? ; )

I'm not sure the bloke in the pub is a benchmark for understanding on the majority of issues to be honest. The benchmark is whether people who really do know their stuff think it's wise, and I'm not sure that's the case.

 

[peteblue]

Well that's not actually true is it? We actually have one of the safest and most punctual rail systems in Europe. We just don't have one of the cheapest.

This really. There is nothing wrong with our railways, but it’s bloody expensive......