Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Brennan]

Would be a significant and much needed stimulus for struggling communities.

Even the Tories are looking at £9.61

$15/hour is becoming the norm in the US - for reference, $15 = £11.54

The fear of massive job losses has thus far not really come to pass, though it is too early to be making blanket conclusions.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Maybe Love the $15 Minimum Wage
https://slate.com/business/2019/02/new-research-15-dollar-minimum-wage-good-for-workers.html

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www.google.co.uk

- Following NYC wage increase, three quarters of restaurants have reduced employee hours

- 36% of restaurants have fired people

- Two consecutive years of employment decline in the restaurant business in NYC, normally something that happens in times of recession


Doesn’t look great to me. At the end of the day a private enterprise will not pay employees at a rate which is higher than the revenue they generate for the business. This is why arbitrary minimum wage hikes aren’t the answer.

It’s a cynical vote gathering tactic by Labour.

 

[zzr45]

I think the big problem with it is that it would be a cross board minimum wage - the problem there that younger people wouldn’t be on a lower rate.

That creates issues in that sectors that are reliant on youth workers (hospitality, retailers etc) will have to push prices up to cover.

Secondly, it takes away one of the key advantages of hiring younger workers - so are you actually going to reduce the likelihood of businesses hiring younger workers and effectively create a youth unemployment issue?

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

You’ve just made that up.

But no, I don’t believe a Nurse working ‘38 hours’ a week should earn the same as somebody working 50 hours per week in McDonalds.

Nurses on wards hardly ever get the breaks they are entitled to, and often work unpaid later than they should. The 38 hours a week becomes more like 42, week after week.

In McDonalds, you clock in and clock out and any extra time you work is paid to the second. Nurses don’t get that.

Not made up just following your logic and it's conclusion.

And Goal post move, now it's nurses in general not the newly qualified. Also 2019 nurses can be practically inefficient in many clinical areas, you can leave with the degree, not being able to take blood not being able to give injections.But good at writing a care plan behind the desk.

Being a nurse myself I had no problems with anyone who is working any job earning more than me, after all we can all choose our own careers.

£10 is a nice minimum, obviously caveats, such as 18 year old just leaving college with appropriate food certificates working at MacDonalds, should be paid more than the board retiree wanting to top up their unexpected poor pensions who has no experience in the food service sector.

 

[tsubaki]

Setting a minimum wage (and UBI, though that is a separate issue) is nothing more than politicians doing something without actually doing something.

The problem is that millions of people struggle to live on what they are paid; the solution must be for the state to look at where income goes (which is housing, food and transport mainly) and take action to reduce cost in those areas. Corbyn could do this (especially in housing and transport) and he would help people more (and help more people) than putting the minimum wage up to £10 would do, and he'd do less damage to business whilst doing it (apart from landlords, they'd be screwed).

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Setting a minimum wage (and UBI, though that is a separate issue) is nothing more than politicians doing something without actually doing something.

The problem is that millions of people struggle to live on what they are paid; the solution must be for the state to look at where income goes (which is housing, food and transport mainly) and take action to reduce cost in those areas. Corbyn could do this (especially in housing and transport) and he would help people more (and help more people) than putting the minimum wage up to £10 would do, and he'd do less damage to business whilst doing it (apart from landlords, they'd be screwed).

Housing I'll grant you, but food isn't expensive, it just requires a bit of knowledge of diet and cooking so you're not going with ready meals, which are expensive. Interestingly Estonia provide free public transport for everyone, although that may be more feasible as it's a small(er) country. Transport is pretty affordable in London, so it always baffles me to go outside and see how expensive things like buses are, and then they run practically empty. I don't really get the business model tbh.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Setting a minimum wage (and UBI, though that is a separate issue) is nothing more than politicians doing something without actually doing something.

The problem is that millions of people struggle to live on what they are paid; the solution must be for the state to look at where income goes (which is housing, food and transport mainly) and take action to reduce cost in those areas. Corbyn could do this (especially in housing and transport) and he would help people more (and help more people) than putting the minimum wage up to £10 would do, and he'd do less damage to business whilst doing it (apart from landlords, they'd be screwed).

Moving away from property being a place to stash cash and actually a place for people to live in is key. However, I suspect the same howls and various mantra and troupes of Marxism will fly just like having the same minimum wage for all ages.

Housing I'll grant you, but food isn't expensive, it just requires a bit of knowledge of diet and cooking so you're not going with ready meals, which are expensive. Interestingly Estonia provide free public transport for everyone, although that may be more feasible as it's a small(er) country. Transport is pretty affordable in London, so it always baffles me to go outside and see how expensive things like buses are, and then they run practically empty. I don't really get the business model tbh.

Free bus transport for all in Wales at weekends! And many discounts on the rail network.

 

[tsubaki]

Housing I'll grant you, but food isn't expensive, it just requires a bit of knowledge of diet and cooking so you're not going with ready meals, which are expensive. Interestingly Estonia provide free public transport for everyone, although that may be more feasible as it's a small(er) country. Transport is pretty affordable in London, so it always baffles me to go outside and see how expensive things like buses are, and then they run practically empty. I don't really get the business model tbh.

That is true, though it forms a surprisingly high amount of the ONS "average weekly spending" figures:

Family spending in the UK - Office for National Statistics

Average weekly household expenditure on goods and services in the UK, by region, age, income, economic status, socio-economic class and household composition.

www.ons.gov.uk

Those are the areas where the state could expect to reduce the money people spend though, and that should be what a genuine government does rather than this £10 nonsense (though admittedly it would be a lot more difficult to sell politically).

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Having the same minimum wage for all ages is a good way to go, similar in essence to gender wage discrimination, the ability of the individual should be recognised, 18 to 68, if they can meet same outcomes for the employer they should be paid the same, regardless of age regardless gender regardless what make them individuals.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

That is true, though it forms a surprisingly high amount of the ONS "average weekly spending" figures:

Family spending in the UK - Office for National Statistics

Average weekly household expenditure on goods and services in the UK, by region, age, income, economic status, socio-economic class and household composition.

www.ons.gov.uk

Those are the areas where the state could expect to reduce the money people spend though, and that should be what a genuine government does rather than this £10 nonsense (though admittedly it would be a lot more difficult to sell politically).

I can't speak for elsewhere in the country, but there are cooking classes here for (I think) new parents that essentially help people to eat well for less, so it covers budgeting, shopping and cooking healthy meals. From what I understand it's always over-subscribed. The challenge, as so often is that there are those who have the motivation and will attend such classes, and there are those who don't for whatever reason. Helping people who don't seem to want to help themselves is an ongoing challenge.

 

[orchard]

I can't speak for elsewhere in the country, but there are cooking classes here for (I think) new parents that essentially help people to eat well for less, so it covers budgeting, shopping and cooking healthy meals. From what I understand it's always over-subscribed. The challenge, as so often is that there are those who have the motivation and will attend such classes, and there are those who don't for whatever reason. Helping people who don't seem to want to help themselves is an ongoing challenge.

Are you just peddling the proposition that those that aren't well off are only thus because of poor choices, laziness, etc.?

I'm fairly sure time is short for those JAM it people.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Are you just peddling the proposition that those that aren't well off are only thus because of poor choices, laziness, etc.?

I'm fairly sure time is short for those JAM it people.

I'm not peddling anything, just talking about a program that my wife has mentioned a few times that's designed to help people eat healthily on a budget. I've never had reason to look, but I strongly suspect that Southwark council (who provide these services) is run by Labour, and the MPs in this borough are also Labour. Help doesn't just have to come in the form of a cheque.

 

[Brennan]

Not made up just following your logic and it's conclusion.

And Goal post move, now it's nurses in general not the newly qualified. Also 2019 nurses can be practically inefficient in many clinical areas, you can leave with the degree, not being able to take blood not being able to give injections.But good at writing a care plan behind the desk.

Being a nurse myself I had no problems with anyone who is working any job earning more than me, after all we can all choose our own careers.

£10 is a nice minimum, obviously caveats, such as 18 year old just leaving college with appropriate food certificates working at MacDonalds, should be paid more than the board retiree wanting to top up their unexpected poor pensions who has no experience in the food service sector.

Its really not at all.

You’re implying something totally different.

I’m not saying that somebody who works more hours can never earn more than somebody working less hours in a more highly skilled job.

I am saying that arbitrarily increasing the minimum wage, without really caring of the impact on the economy or workers, in order to win votes is wrong.

Not even close to the same thing..

Some of the actions taken by the Tory government have been unforgivable, which is why I’m so disappointed to see Corbyn resorting to this tactic of vote grabbing by forcing private enterprises to pay wages they may not be able to.

These wage increases don’t just impact huge corporations, they can send small businesses into bankruptcy or force them to make staff redundant.

 

[Number_25]

(maybe we should just pay nurses more)

 

[orchard]

I'm not peddling anything, just talking about a program that my wife has mentioned a few times that's designed to help people eat healthily on a budget. I've never had reason to look, but I strongly suspect that Southwark council (who provide these services) is run by Labour, and the MPs in this borough are also Labour. Help doesn't just have to come in the form of a cheque.

I never said that it did. Ever. However, you do seem to be neglecting the time issue, and the saturated (and proba ly very localised) courses for those that have the leisure to attend.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I never said that it did. Ever. However, you do seem to be neglecting the time issue, and the saturated (and proba ly very localised) courses for those that have the leisure to attend.

Sure, I wouldn't ever suggest it's a silver bullet, and there are well known issues with people who are stressed or time poor making poor choices and so on, just as I suspect programs like these aren't available throughout the country. I just thought it was an interesting project, just as various programs that invest extra resources in the heaviest users of various services, be they job centres or healthcare, have shown equally promising results. You would hope whoever assesses these schemes does have the wisdom to assess just how much local factors play in any results that do occur, but I'm not entirely convinced that policy is as evidence-based as it should be at the best of times, so don't suppose it is.