Current Affairs The Labour Party

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Starmer fans are not on the “left”, so what is there to split?

Corbyn displaying his miserable political instints again by attempting to split the Left just as the Far Right is on the march. If he does this and throws 2029 wide open for Farage to somehow sneak in, it would cap even the time his ineptitude led to the British people giving an odious creature like Johnson a majority.
Starmer fans are not on the “left”, so what is there to split?
 
Only if we ditch FPTP (a move I'm broadly in favour of). Even with Reform polling well currently, there's no long term future for a tetrarchy of parties - as soon as either Reform or the Tories ate the other then a Labour/Collective split on the Left would just see damaging Right Wing majorities installed.

If we moved to a different form of voting then the days of broad churches needing to stay together for a shot at power would be done.
Think the rise of Reform has moved mainstream political discussion further right, especially regards to immigration, and the mainstream parties are by and large failing or are reluctant to push back.

A half decent left wing party could help address this balance I think. Not that they’d get much decent media coverage.

Unless something changes in our political direction, I think it will be very likely we’ll see a Reform government in the next 20 years.
 
Unless something changes in our political direction, I think it will be very likely we’ll see a Reform government in the next 20 years.

Yeah, it is a real, building, worry. But I reject the idea that the best way to combat that is to throw yet another party opposing them into the mix, one of the great counterintuitives of FPTP is that the more parties appear to support a particular view, the more diluted the votes for it get. Still annoys me so much that in one of Farage's failed earlier runs a whole bunch of 'celebrity' candidates talked about going and 'joining the fight' opposing him. You'd literally be doing the opposite of that!

And anyway, I don't think it's a simple as saying Reform are pushing the discussion further right. Economically they are a very right wing party, with all the promised tax cuts and deregulation that involves. But at the same time they're hiding that facet of themselves and instead intensely pushing small c social conservativism and reaching trad-left ('Red Wall') parts of the electorate that a non-Boris Tory party are no longer speaking to (and also can possibly be seen as having betrayed, Boris or no).

So what's the natural counter to this? Whilst they aren't making any economic arguments really, do we want a high-tax high-spend welfare state party to take that fight to them on economic grounds only? Or are we ignoring that entirely and focusing on their cultural rhetoric, and wanting this new party to be some sort of socially liberal anti-Reform, embodying the "tofu-eating wokerati" of the tabloid rags to counter what they're saying? Basically just repeating Bruce's posts in the Commons?

Or both at the same time?

Once we've worked that out, is there room for this new party's platform when it's jostling its economic and cultural Leftist elbows up against Labour, the Greens, perhaps the SNP & even the Lib Dems (who to be fair might slide rightwards in opposition to a Labour government)?

I just don't see the gain for my 'side' of politics compared to the obvious vote-splitting downsides. What does this new party give us that the Greens, who are currently on a high, have just quadrupled their MPs and have an existing party structure, can't, if someone wants a non-Labour voice on the Left? Remember, even Dave had plumped for voting Green before Galloway turned up with a roguish twinkle in his eye and beckoned 'Mr Consistency' down a dark alley.
 
I wouldn't worry about the Brexit party. They haven't gained any voters in the past decade. Could get the numbers but CBA.

As for policy that don't have any. All they do is follow the headlines and try and cause a couple of nose bleeds.

Once Farage goes in the next election they will collapse again.
 
Way too early to make any assumptions at this stage. Our system is very different to the US as the term is longer and the campaigning is shorter. If the economy is doing well in 4+ years then I think Labour will get in again reasonably easily.

If it’s not then it depends on if it’s terrible or just not improved much. That opens the Tory/Reform situation and whether they work together or cannibalise each other.

But before all that who knows what the geopolitical situation is going to be with Trump coming back in, various ongoing wars and potential other ones that could break out.
 
Way too early to make any assumptions at this stage. Our system is very different to the US as the term is longer and the campaigning is shorter. If the economy is doing well in 4+ years then I think Labour will get in again reasonably easily.

If it’s not then it depends on if it’s terrible or just not improved much. That opens the Tory/Reform situation and whether they work together or cannibalise each other.

But before all that who knows what the geopolitical situation is going to be with Trump coming back in, various ongoing wars and potential other ones that could break out.
History tells us. When a party has held power for long stretches and are then removed. It takes time for them to recover.

Given the current state of the Tories and the clear negative views of how they ran things and their behaviours. It would take one inspirational leader for them to take it back in 5 years. I don't see anyone from them yet who is capable.
 
History tells us. When a party has held power for long stretches and are then removed. It takes time for them to recover.

Given the current state of the Tories and the clear negative views of how they ran things and their behaviours. It would take one inspirational leader for them to take it back in 5 years. I don't see anyone from them yet who is capable.
Agree completely. But in a 4+ year period with the World the way it is at the moment there could be some exogenous shocks that shake that up a bit.

I hope not for the multiple reasons that would be horrendous.
 
They’ll be far more “successful” than a Jeremy Corbyn party.

Doesn’t need to be PM for it to be come a problem.
I strongly suspect there's little chance a Corbyn led or affiliated party appeals to the sorts of folk who voted Reform. I.e. the sorts who are now complaining about the current Starmer Red Tory Gang ™️ because they're increasing taxes/woke/letting in migrants etc.


Farage et al's MO has always been crap stirring from the sidelines and having no actual responsibility. Would be very surprised to see him give up the day job of grifting around America to be a serious MP, never mind a Tory Party leader.
 
They’ll be far more “successful” than a Jeremy Corbyn party.

Doesn’t need to be PM for it to be come a problem.
Depends what you consider successful I guess. But under Corbyn labour had the most registered party members of any party in Western Europe.

With only five MPS and the voting system we have. The ability to make actual noise in the chamber is extremely difficult. Even the SNP Party when they had over 50 MP's they where no more than a nuisance.

Even the former coalition partner Lib Dems only just recovered over a decade after failing to make any insignificant in roads into the policies they wanted under the Cameron government.

 
I strongly suspect there's little chance a Corbyn led or affiliated party appeals to the sorts of folk who voted Reform. I.e. the sorts who are now complaining about the current Starmer Red Tory Gang ™️ because they're increasing taxes/woke/letting in migrants etc.


Farage et al's MO has always been crap stirring from the sidelines and having no actual responsibility. Would be very surprised to see him give up the day job of grifting around America to be a serious MP, never mind a Tory Party leader.

My point was more that there’s more chance of votes being spread across several different parties with those on the left.

It’s Reform or the Tories on the right & this country kept voting those muppets in for the last 14 years so.
 
Depends what you consider successful I guess. But under Corbyn labour had the most registered party members of any party in Western Europe.

With only five MPS and the voting system we have. The ability to make actual noise in the chamber is extremely difficult. Even the SNP Party when they had over 50 MP's they where no more than a nuisance.

Even the former coalition partner Lib Dems only just recovered over a decade after failing to make any insignificant in roads into the policies they wanted under the Cameron government.


Yep for now, my point is the more the left dilute their votes the more likely they can gain more seats.

SNP were a nuisance but they had nowhere near the amount of online presence, potential funding & dangerous people in their corner.

Hate sells & all we’ll see is it ramped up.
 
Yep for now, my point is the more the left dilute their votes the more likely they can gain more seats.

SNP were a nuisance but they had nowhere near the amount of online presence, potential funding & dangerous people in their corner.

Hate sells & all we’ll see is it ramped up.
Your right the difference does seem to be the platform reform use and is proving to be more successful at drawing in younger male voters. Just like the US with Trump.

But the UK runs differently, even with the rise of right wing influence across Europe. We have largely batted it off.

I do agree with @Daveysgingerlovechild they don't want responsibility. And wouldn't know how to handle it.


 
This house building programme - which has a hugely anti-democratic element to it over-ruling local councils, and which will in all likelihood be taken to the courts in many test cases if the go ahead to build is handed over to big housebuilding companies - will be a major battle ground that'll drag this government to its knees. It has that potential.

 
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