Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Goat]

The colossal scale of the harm done and spelling it out clearly is what some of us asked for. We need to know how deep in the crap we are to then try to work our way up and out of it. It is also very important to apportion the blame for this situation square and true as a touchstone in history for us all to remember.

Lest we forget.

Some people seem to have their fingers in their ears waiting for the Unicorns to get elected to save us from nasty Labour.

 

[Rita_Poon]

Some people seem to have their fingers in their ears waiting for the Unicorns to get elected to save us from nasty Labour.

Some people are insane. It's a perfectly sane reaction to an insane world, but doesn't really achieve much.
Ideological perfection is a very nice thought. Sadly the reality of the UK is that of pain and suffering and humiliation.

cameron
may
boris
truss
sunak

Arch villains and thieves every one. Lest we forget.

 

[Goat]

Some people are insane. It's a perfectly sane reaction to an insane world, but doesn't really achieve much.
Ideological perfection is a very nice thought. Sadly the reality of the UK is that of pain and suffering and humiliation.

cameron
may
boris
truss
sunak

Arch villains and thieves every one. Lest we forget.

 

[toffee83]

No

Well he's said that in a different interview today. A despicable man that's intent to privatise the NHS.

 

[Rita_Poon]

Looks like the lemon was chatting bubbles regarding the Crown Estate and GB energy also.



The Govt already owns the seabed via the Crown Estate which is a commercial company owned by the Govt to manage Crown assets. This account has been corrected on this multiple occasions and is likely posting mistruths for engagement.

If he's chatting he's breathing, and that is a good thing. You've reminded me about his hot take on Linford last night, so there's mirth to be meddled.
GB energy needs some cast iron certainties about it's future, because any success or any profit will sold out under the next round of tories in their first action. Nothing is safe from them, they'll introduce a tax on dying yet.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I wonder if Hamas are interested in NHS policy?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

People need to read stuff like this and give their heads a wobble about Streeting, Starmer and the rest of the gangsters in No.10 now.

Labour is putting its plans for Britain in the hands of private finance. It could end badly | Daniela Gabor

Handing vital infrastructure to big finance will generate windfalls for investors and leave the rest of us worse off. We need a better plan, says Daniela Gabor, a professor of economics and macrofinance at UWE Bristol

www.theguardian.com

Oh dear Dave. Peddling fears that the Jewish Larry Fink will control the world. It feels like we've been here before.

 

[Rob17896]

They knew about this before the election, they have access to all the data, not sure why it is a surprise.

it is not but they would have been pilloried

The state is not skint. We are the 5th richest nation in the world. It doesn't matter what the government debt we can afford better public sectors than we have right now. It's a choice. And the infiltration of the private sector into the NHS this far has handed us the worst NHS performances ever.

And free at the point of care is something that can change. Once the whole shooting match is owned lock stock and barrel by the private sector we'll then see an insurance based system come into play. Ask the Irish 80 miles away what that looks like.

Dave. That is a simplistic reply. You conflate our gross domestic product with our balance sheet. Take the time to have a look at the value of state assets compared to debt and how this has deteriorated since 1979. The state is not bankrupt because it has not run out of cash. That cash is however borrowed, we run at a loss and our state assets are no longer more valuable than our debts.

Secondly we do pay for the NHS, it is not actually free. If a progressive insurance based system was applied that ensured that the state paid for you if you were out of work, that ensured we were all included then that might very well be a better option. The best healthcare in the world is in European countries who are more equitable societies and have an insurance based system. The NHS is short of money but is also an incredibly wasteful organisation, I know this because my job is talking to both NHS and the supply-side every day. Answers are never as simple as a private/public argument. However if profit is to be made from utilities than I would argue that profit should always belong to the state, I would also argue that some services should never have a profit motive. However when it comes to most state services we should seek best service for best value. Who delivers that is less important than high service levels at reasonable cost.

 

[davek]

it is not but they would have been pilloried

Dave. That is a simplistic reply. You conflate our gross domestic product with our balance sheet. Take the time to have a look at the value of state assets compared to debt and how this has deteriorated since 1979. The state is not bankrupt because it has not run out of cash. That cash is however borrowed, we run at a loss and our state assets are no longer more valuable than our debts.

Secondly we do pay for the NHS, it is not actually free. If a progressive insurance based system was applied that ensured that the state paid for you if you were out of work, that ensured we were all included then that might very well be a better option. The best healthcare in the world is in European countries who are more equitable societies and have an insurance based system. The NHS is short of money but is also an incredibly wasteful organisation, I know this because my job is talking to both NHS and the supply-side every day. Answers are never as simple as a private/public argument. However if profit is to be made from utilities than I would argue that profit should always belong to the state, I would also argue that some services should never have a profit motive. However when it comes to most state services we should seek best service for best value. Who delivers that is less important than high service levels at reasonable cost.

That's just ideological waffle that excuses the complete transformation of the NHS into not the NHS.

You'll end up with a two or three tier system where the best treatment is determined by class and money. Have a look at a history book and see how the hospitals were run prior to the NHS being created. Infirmaries for the poor and down at heel which were just institutions that grew out of the Poor Law system while the comfortably off received private treatment in top clinics...in Liverpool in places Rodney St which were chocca with private facilities - it was like our Harley St. The poor had to scrimp and save and get part of a penny in the pound fund to try and nose their way into better facilities to treat them when they were very ill.

This is back to the future.

It;s shocking that anyone is confident enough to advocate the private sector coming in and destroying completely what was built up post 1945.

The Red Tories will carry out that mission though. You can be certain of that. That's one of the reasons they persuaded capital in the run up to this past election to not stand in their way but to join with them in sidelining the Tories: they'll fling open the doors to the private sector to utterly dominate and commodify every aspect of our lives. Every policy they pursue will be to that end....which is why I can state with some authority that there WILL be a political backlash to their left and the vacuum they've left there WILL be filled.

 

[davek]

Oh dear Dave. Peddling fears that the Jewish Larry Fink will control the world. It feels like we've been here before.

You're officially pathetic.

 

[Kurt.]

Rachel Reeves and her black hole though

 

[joey_macmo]

Because the public didn't know, so it's informing them, and likely a precursor to some form of policy release/action. Or... the cabinet figures weren't entirely accurate.


While I'm not disagreeing with the dangers of private infiltration of the NHS and how the Conservatives have, to some extent, allowed and facilitated this...

... the real issue with the NHS is gross mismanagement, an ad-hoc and disorganised leadership structure, and a lack of any coherent national strategy.

To some extent, the NHS is better funded now than it's ever been, but inherent inefficiencies (won't post again but search up some of my posts) cripple it.

If we want the NHS to retain free at the point of entry and be a world leading medical provider, it needs a root and branch reform that'll likely cost decades*.

*and lots of money (and sizable yet necessary redundancies) in the here and now.

The public did know it just wasn’t communicated by the parties because it would have signalled spending cuts/tax rises and neither wanted to campaign on that.

the idea that its a surprise (as said by streeting in R4 this morning) is just a lie.

 

[joey_macmo]

Oh dear Dave. Peddling fears that the Jewish Larry Fink will control the world. It feels like we've been here before.

It’s an article by a highly qualified professor in a well respected newspaper.

I think it’s bang out of order what you’re accusing him off there tbh.

 

[Rob17896]

That's just ideological waffle that excuses the complete transformation of the NHS into not the NHS.

You'll end up with a two or three tier system where the best treatment is determined by class and money. Have a look at a history book and see how the hospitals were run prior to the NHS being created. Infirmaries for the poor and down at heel which were just institutions that grew out of the Poor Law system while the comfortably off received private treatment in top clinics...in Liverpool in places Rodney St which were chocca with private facilities - it was like our Harley St. The poor had to scrimp and save and get part of a penny in the pound fund to try and nose their way into better facilities to treat them when they were very ill.

This is back to the future.

It;s shocking that anyone is confident enough to advocate the private sector coming in and destroying completely what was built up post 1945.

The Red Tories will carry out that mission though. You can be certain of that. That's one of the reasons they persuaded capital in the run up to this past election to not stand in their way but to join with them in sidelining the Tories: they'll fling open the doors to the private sector to utterly dominate and commodify every aspect of our lives. Every policy they pursue will be to that end....which is why I can state with some authority that there WILL be a political backlash to their left and the vacuum they've left there WILL be filled.

Dave. You are quoting UK history rather than modern, efficient European health systems that are considerably better than the NHS. You accuse me of being ideological!!! The private sector has already achieved the aim of privatising virtually everything. I absolutely agree with you that things need re-balancing. I have a radical view on that front. I think that universal access to healthcare should be a given in a civilised country ( I do not consider the US civilised) but I do not think the NHS is the sacred cow that will best deliver it unless it changes how it spends money, trust me the waste is terrifying in some departments whilst others scream for cash. it is the slowest organisation in the universe to change how it does things. I do not disagree in the slightest with your principles but do not view the NHS or any organisation public or private as untouchable. Things change all the time and what is best today may become abysmal tomorrow.
I know it has been starved of the investment to deliver an effective long-term plan but it has also done absolutely nothing about efficiency. It is a shambles in need of both money but major reform.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It’s an article by a highly qualified professor in a well respected newspaper.

I think it’s bang out of order what you’re accusing him off there tbh.

Indeed. We certainly haven't been here before