Current Affairs The Labour Party

[orchard]

Did you even listen/read the transcript Bruce?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Very emotional Bruce,what was your point again? You really can be as bad as some of the leave voters at times mate.

IF this hypothesis occurs:
'Tories would win, in which case in Corbyn's eyes, they would have a mandate for something that parliament thinks is a rubbish idea, as do most of the public.'
Surely we deserve what we get.

Do you seriously think that if Corbyn wins a general election that he will get a different deal with the EU as a result?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Did you even listen/read the transcript Bruce?

He wants a general election, no?

 

[The binman chronicles]

Very emotional Bruce,what was your point again? You really can be as bad as some of the leave voters at times mate.

IF this hypothesis occurs:
'Tories would win, in which case in Corbyn's eyes, they would have a mandate for something that parliament thinks is a rubbish idea, as do most of the public.'
Surely we deserve what we get.

Problem is in a GE we are not voting for just brexit. Some people might not be able to see pass the fact that JC has already said he would never be able to use the nuclear arsenal thus it stops becoming a deterrent. So we are going to pay out nearly 100 billion for nothing, hardly good sense there for starters. Other policies such as striking isn't going to hit well with one half of the population and the costs of his wish list will be phenomenal.

So Joe public might prefer a JC brexit but still vote Tory or for another party for all the other reasons. Doesn't mean they all want a hard brexit or brexit at all, just they don't want to see Corbyn as PM.

 

[Tubey]

Problem is in a GE we are not voting for just brexit. Some people might not be able to see past the fact that JC has already said he would never be able to use the nuclear arsenal thus it stops becoming a deterrent. So we are going to pay out nearly 100 billion for nothing, hardly good sense there for starters. Other policies such as striking isn't going to hit well with one half of the population and the costs of his wish list will be phenomenal.

So the Joe public might prefer a JC brexit but still vote Tory or for another party for all the other reasons. Doesn't mean they all want a hard brexit or brexit at all, just they don't want to see Corbyn as PM.

Nailed it.

A GE solves absolutely nothing on Brexit, because it isn't a single-issue vote.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

“Prattling on”? A General Election is vastly more sensible than a second referendum is.

And why is that?

 

[orchard]

Do you seriously think that if Corbyn wins a general election that he will get a different deal with the EU as a result?

Yea, less red lines mate, mentioned a few times on here, mentioned in Corbyn's speech today.

 

[tsubaki]

He wants a general election, no?

Bruce, do you honestly trust this Government to run a second referendum?

 

[orchard]

He wants a general election, no?

Yes, it appears to be the case, when they have the numbers to successfully get one.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yea, less red lines mate, mentioned a few times on here, mentioned in Corbyn's speech today.

Fanciful in the extreme. Corbyn barely even agrees with Starmer, let alone being able to present a united front in any negotiations with the EU. As I said, the fundamentals have gotten worse over the last few years, so the notion that he's the white knight because he has some sort of Trump like negotiating prowess is frankly insulting.

Bruce, do you honestly trust this Government to run a second referendum?

No, I don't trust this government whatsoever, but I can see a snake oil salesman when I see one, and Corbyn is just that. As I said above, if 'none of the above' was a binding option in the next election, I'm fairly sure it would win a landslide. We've never had such awful options to choose from.

 

[orchard]

Problem is in a GE we are not voting for just brexit. Some people might not be able to see pass the fact that JC has already said he would never be able to use the nuclear arsenal thus it stops becoming a deterrent. So we are going to pay out nearly 100 billion for nothing, hardly good sense there for starters. Other policies such as striking isn't going to hit well with one half of the population and the costs of his wish list will be phenomenal.

So Joe public might prefer a JC brexit but still vote Tory or for another party for all the other reasons. Doesn't mean they all want a hard brexit or brexit at all, just they don't want to see Corbyn as PM.

Yea, like I said to Bruce, if our citizens can't get perspective and prioritise, we'll get what we deserve.

 

[tsubaki]

No, I don't trust this government whatsoever, but I can see a snake oil salesman when I see one, and Corbyn is just that. As I said above, if 'none of the above' was a binding option in the next election, I'm fairly sure it would win a landslide. We've never had such awful options to choose from.

That’s your opinion, though given that I fail to see how you think a second referendum is a good idea.

 

[tsubaki]

Problem is in a GE we are not voting for just brexit. Some people might not be able to see pass the fact that JC has already said he would never be able to use the nuclear arsenal thus it stops becoming a deterrent. So we are going to pay out nearly 100 billion for nothing, hardly good sense there for starters. Other policies such as striking isn't going to hit well with one half of the population and the costs of his wish list will be phenomenal.

So Joe public might prefer a JC brexit but still vote Tory or for another party for all the other reasons. Doesn't mean they all want a hard brexit or brexit at all, just they don't want to see Corbyn as PM.

This is the thing with modern British politics; everyone focuses on an issue that fundamentally does not exist. Corbyn or any PM is not required for our nuclear deterrent to function.

 

[orchard]

Fanciful in the extreme. Corbyn barely even agrees with Starmer, let alone being able to present a united front in any negotiations with the EU. As I said, the fundamentals have gotten worse over the last few years, so the notion that he's the white knight because he has some sort of Trump like negotiating prowess is frankly insulting.



No, I don't trust this government whatsoever, but I can see a snake oil salesman when I see one, and Corbyn is just that. As I said above, if 'none of the above' was a binding option in the next election, I'm fairly sure it would win a landslide. We've never had such awful options to choose from.

1.example please
2.you're not listening

 

[The binman chronicles]

Yea, like I said to Bruce, if our citizens can't get perspective and prioritise, we'll get what we deserve.

There are a lot of issues and priorities there though. You can't make a GE into a single issue event. If you want the people to have a say on brexit then there needs to be a 2nd referendum.

If people say no deal then you are right we get what we deserve.

I like Corbyn's manifesto from a view of a utopian society, that is where we should be trying to head to. But you can't do that over the life of one or even two parliaments. All that will happen is the surge of tax rises to fund it all will push voters to the other lot and Labour could be this time confined to the dustbin, never to be a governing party again. All the good things that they implement might then be reversed and we would have just spent an enormous amount that might have made things better for a couple of years.

I'm reading Gordon Brown's autobiography at the moment and it is night and day between them on how the party should be run and what they should be targeting.