Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Billy Dean]

How much of Labour's right voted Tory in 2017 and 2019 do we think?

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

I'm not the one defending Starmer for writing for the Scum.

Principles above victory = more Tory government.

You're clearly happy with another term or the Bullingdon Club boys. Cool, that's your perogative but I'll be supporting anything that gets them out.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

I forgot we'd entered a world where only certain kinds of people get to vote rather than every Tom, [Poor language removed], and Harry in the country. It's perhaps also worth noting, and something I'm sure many here complained about when the Tories did the opposite after Brexit, but a government exists to govern for the entire country, not just those who are its most fervent supporters, or indeed those who vote for them.

I can't fathom it. The likes of the rag and GBNews are excuses for news outlets, but during the pandemic would we expect Chris Whitty to not give interviews to those publications because he thinks they stink, or would we expect him to reach as many people as possible with his message because it's important?

This isn't student union politics where ideological purity trumps everything else. I'm not sure any political party gets by on that when confronted with the reality of actually governing. Look at Syriza in Greece. They were like Dave's wet dream when campaigning but had to back peddle enormously when actually in government. That's why Wilders doesn't want to actually be in government because he would almost certainly have to row back on his vile rhetoric.

The adults in the room will understand this.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

How much of Labour's right voted Tory in 2017 and 2019 do we think?

All of it.

 

[Billy Dean]

All of it.

Are you using the sarcasm font or do you really think that?

 

[Martin Alvito]

Are you using the sarcasm font or do you really think that?

Looks like a mild overstatement for emphasis to me.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Are you using the sarcasm font or do you really think that?

I genuinely couldn't tell you. I'd imagine it would have needed quite a few usual labour voters to swing in the so called Red Wall seats.

Question is would they consider themselves as 'right' leaning Labour voters? Should we?

 

[Charro]

Such a frustrating thread.

Slightest hint of criticism for Starmer and the same old bores are out with their extremely funny jokes.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Such a frustrating thread.

Slightest hint of criticism for Starmer and the same old bores are out with their extremely funny jokes.

It's more that some of us have had enough of the tories going through our lives like a wrecking ball.

 

[Charro]

It's more that some of us have had enough of the tories going through our lives like a wrecking ball.

So has everyone.

Doesn't mean the opposition can go without criticism.

 

[Martin Alvito]

I genuinely couldn't tell you. I'd imagine it would have needed quite a few usual labour voters to swing in the so called Red Wall seats.

Question is would they consider themselves as 'right' leaning Labour voters? Should we?

You would have to dig deep into the exit polling data from those elections if you wanted answers to the second set of questions.

If we're talking the mechanics, there are two ways to explain the result. One is that Brexit and Johnson turned out people who normally do not show up. Another is that Labour voters didn't turn out or switched their votes. I can process that data from American elections quickly, as I know where the key points for leverage are, but I don't have the priors to sort through UK election data and assess how much of the result in 2019 was attributable to either mechanism.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

You would have to dig deep into the exit polling data from those elections if you wanted answers to the second set of questions.

If we're talking the mechanics, there are two ways to explain the result. One is that Brexit and Johnson turned out people who normally do not show up. Another is that Labour voters didn't turn out or switched their votes. I can process that data from American elections quickly, as I know where the key points for leverage are, but I don't have the priors to sort through UK election data and assess how much of the result in 2019 was attributable to either mechanism.

Here possibly? https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8749/

 

[JimmyJeffers]

So has everyone.

Doesn't mean the opposition can go without criticism.

Not even sure how labour will be any different except not going on about wokes all the time or wanting to send people to Rwanda.
People seem to be trusting that they’ll do what’s right just cos it’s Labour.
There could well be some shocks in store.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Not even sure how labour will be any different except not going on about wokes all the time or wanting to send people to Rwanda.
People seem to be trusting that they’ll do what’s right just cos it’s Labour.
There could well be some shocks in store.

There's a very good chance nothing improves and the Labour Govt will be seen to fail and only last one term.

But in good conscience I can't let the current ghouls stay in power even if this Labour party have a whiff about them.

Electoral rock and hard place.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

So has everyone.

Doesn't mean the opposition can go without criticism.

Criticism is, of course, perfectly valid, but suggesting that Labour aren't the only game in town when it comes to turfing the Tories out is bonkers, yet that's what people are arguing, that Labour aren't "really" Labour, so their vote will go elsewhere. I don't think anyone is here saying Starmer is a great leader but it's maddening that six months out from an election people are surprised that a Labour leader is trying to reach people who voted for Johnson in the last election.

As I said above, I would love politicians to take an evidence-based approach on things like migration and talk about the huge number of benefits it brings rather than constantly pander to fear and bigotry by suggesting it has to be reduced. Even among the Tories there has always been a stark difference between their abhorrent rhetoric and the actual figures so I can only assume that even they secretly get it but don't want to let on because the right wing nut jobs hate forens.

The point is though, which mass media platform exists that would allow the evidence-driven case for migration to be made? Would you get regular column inches in a red top to make it? Would a couple of minutes on LBC or Radio 4 do the job when faced up against the barrage of fear that is perfectly delivered via soundbites that don't actually "require" any evidence? I don't like it at all, but I can understand it.