Current Affairs The Labour Party

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But at what cost? You end with a load of policies pandering to the most disgusting parts of society.
This is probably inevitable in a two party, first past the post system though. I probably haven't had a party to vote for that represents my views my entire life and don't expect to ever have one. Couple that with the fact that my own views are probably different to that of "the majority" and you've got to go for the least worst option.
 
This is probably inevitable in a two party, first past the post system though. I probably haven't had a party to vote for that represents my views my entire life and don't expect to ever have one. Couple that with the fact that my own views are probably different to that of "the majority" and you've got to go for the least worst option.
Same for me. I have so many right wing and left wing views, that their really isn't a party I can say, yes, I like what you are selling.

I would love to see a proper 3rd party come to the table who isn't afraid of saying we will take this from the right, this from the left and this is what we are gonna do with it.
It won't happen, but you can hope.
 
Same for me. I have so many right wing and left wing views, that their really isn't a party I can say, yes, I like what you are selling.

I would love to see a proper 3rd party come to the table who isn't afraid of saying we will take this from the right, this from the left and this is what we are gonna do with it.
It won't happen, but you can hope.
Historically that would have been the liberals, who were socially liberal but economically in favour of markets, but the Lib Dems are an utter shambles and have been for a really long time. I suppose all you can hope is that Starmer is trying not to be too "normal" for fear of giving the Tories even the slightest ammunition in an upcoming election, which does seem kinda sad given how huge Labour's lead is in the polls. If he's so underwhelming when in office then that will be a huge let down.
 
This is probably inevitable in a two party, first past the post system though. I probably haven't had a party to vote for that represents my views my entire life and don't expect to ever have one. Couple that with the fact that my own views are probably different to that of "the majority" and you've got to go for the least worst option.
I don’t disagree but nothing good comes from a government being elected on account of being the ‘least worst option’ which is pretty much what this Labour Party are. I don’t know what views of mine they even represent now or how their policies are particularly different to the opposite benches.

This leads to political distrust and apathy which as we all know will lead to nasty opportunism further down the line.
 
I don’t disagree but nothing good comes from a government being elected on account of being the ‘least worst option’ which is pretty much what this Labour Party are. I don’t know what views of mine they even represent now or how their policies are particularly different to the opposite benches.

This leads to political distrust and apathy which as we all know will lead to nasty opportunism further down the line.
To play devil's advocate though, lets say that there was a proportional representation system in place whereby coalitions became far more commonplace. Wouldn't that facilitate just the kind of "broad church" compromises that we're criticising Labour for doing under the auspices of first past the post? Surely the problem is that the "majority" of voters have quite a wide range of views and therefore to secure a majority you have to appeal to such a range rather than necessarily the views held by your base?

I mean my dad is very much a Lee Anderson kind of guy and I don't agree with him on pretty much anything, but I accept that Brexit happened in no small part because people like him felt at best excluded by the "metropolitan elite" that you and I probably align with, and at worst looked down upon by them. It seems a dangerous game to continue holding a lot of people in contempt and just hoping that your side has more numbers than the other.

I'd love for that divide to be closed by talking and the use of evidence, but with both social media and mainstream media seemingly increasingly driven by polarised soundbites that people consume in passing rather than as dedicated consumption, I honestly have no idea how that would happen. So while it pains me what Starmer is coming out with at times, I can understand why he's doing it.
 
Having a choice between bad and worse and having to choose the least worst option certainly is a very bad thing.
That is what happened in France, Macron ou Le Pen.
I fear it will lead to apathy and extremism the next time round unless there is a viable alternative to neo liberal Macron.
 
Having a choice between bad and worse and having to choose the least worst option certainly is a very bad thing.
That is what happened in France, Macron ou Le Pen.
I fear it will lead to apathy and extremism the next time round unless there is a viable alternative to neo liberal Macron.
Exactly. It pushes ‘centrism’ further right.

If Labour don’t win the next election you’d hope internal reviews would find that pandering to the right doesn’t necessarily get you elected and perhaps delivering clear and positive messages does.
Can see them sneaking in as part of a coalition and hailing it a massive success and a victory for ‘centrist politics’ however.
Obviously it’s better than the crooks in charge now but it’s still completely grim.
 
Having a choice between bad and worse and having to choose the least worst option certainly is a very bad thing.
That is what happened in France, Macron ou Le Pen.
I fear it will lead to apathy and extremism the next time round unless there is a viable alternative to neo liberal Macron.
That's the question though, isn't it? As I said above, the nature of politics is that you, by design, have to appeal to as many people as possible. Dave probably likes the Greens precisely because they're never anywhere near power so don't have to compromise, but it's almost certain that if they were in contention for government they would have to do so and would thus probably be less appealing to Dave.

The hoohah over pension reform is a good example, as you'll probably not be able to find a demographer anywhere in the world that doesn't think that as society ages people need to work longer. It's probably as close to a consensus as is possible to get on these matters, yet the moment anyone dares to suggest such a thing people take to the streets and start burning things. Granted, Macron went about it in an oafish way, but I doubt anything would have happened otherwise.

The Brexit vote was similar, in that it ignored expertise and went instead for nice-sounding fairy tales. People "could" have read up on things and become better informed, but they chose not to and thus Brexit happened. So we kind of get the politicians we deserve.
 
Exactly. It pushes ‘centrism’ further right.

If Labour don’t win the next election you’d hope internal reviews would find that pandering to the right doesn’t necessarily get you elected and perhaps delivering clear and positive messages does.
Can see them sneaking in as part of a coalition and hailing it a massive success and a victory for ‘centrist politics’ however.
Obviously it’s better than the crooks in charge now but it’s still completely grim.
The last time we had an election, Johnson won a landslide. As incomprehensible as that may seem, that suggests that while many will have just wanted the Brexit debate over with, there are also many who quite like the sound of the [Poor language removed] sandwich he was offering up. Labour have to appeal to those people somehow. As I've said, it would be lovely if the landscape was such that Johnson's lies could be disproven soundly and rationally, but do we really believe the media offers such a platform or that most people are willing and able to consume such information? If they were they wouldn't have been hoodwinked by Johnson to begin with.
 
Pension reform is the tip of the iceberg.
Running down of services, privatisations, judiciary reform, health service charges, cost of living are some of the other areas of malcontent.
Macrons party is in disarray, the anti immigration lot are waiting in the wings.
 
Pension reform is the tip of the iceberg.
Running down of services, privatisations, judiciary reform, health service charges, cost of living are some of the other areas of malcontent.
Macrons party is in disarray, the anti immigration lot are waiting in the wings.

closest parallel I can see is may's 'hostile environment', racism by another word.
 
The last time we had an election, Johnson won a landslide. As incomprehensible as that may seem, that suggests that while many will have just wanted the Brexit debate over with, there are also many who quite like the sound of the [Poor language removed] sandwich he was offering up. Labour have to appeal to those people somehow. As I've said, it would be lovely if the landscape was such that Johnson's lies could be disproven soundly and rationally, but do we really believe the media offers such a platform or that most people are willing and able to consume such information? If they were they wouldn't have been hoodwinked by Johnson to begin with.
The last election the Tories discovered they didn’t have to do debates or challenging interviews and could just repeat the same sentence whilst there was a sustained effort to paint the opposite number as a antisemitic Commie.
Not particularly sure he offered anything else up. They’d learnt from past mistakes.
 
The last election the Tories discovered they didn’t have to do debates or challenging interviews and could just repeat the same sentence whilst there was a sustained effort to paint the opposite number as a antisemitic Commie.
Not particularly sure he offered anything else up. They’d learnt from past mistakes.
I'm not sure things are going to be that much different now. It's evident with the culture wars nonsense that there is a deliberate strategy to divert attention from anything to do with actual governance. Indeed, since Brexit, there has been precious little in terms of any meaningful policies in areas like health or education. Heck, even levelling up has largely been a vacuous soundbite. If Labour just did basic stuff like that and shut up about insignificant nonsense like immigration, it would be a start.
 
I'm not sure things are going to be that much different now. It's evident with the culture wars nonsense that there is a deliberate strategy to divert attention from anything to do with actual governance. Indeed, since Brexit, there has been precious little in terms of any meaningful policies in areas like health or education. Heck, even levelling up has largely been a vacuous soundbite. If Labour just did basic stuff like that and shut up about insignificant nonsense like immigration, it would be a start.
Labour must have a communications issue right? Maybe alternative policy proposals exist but there just isn’t enough platforms willing to showcase them.
 
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