The Expendables

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we really should move Jags on. His value is pretty good, current english international, for someone that can't pass and has the record for most premier league own goals.
Anichebe needs someone who can motivate him so he can go.
 

Expendable ? Victor , Johnny H and Rodwell
I think we would get a little bit more for Jack right now by virtue of his involvement in the current England squad
 

Victor and Rodwell are players who could go and leave pretty much no hole in the side. If we could get £10m for them I'd do it. Moylez could turn that into a 2/3 decent players in positions where we actually need them.
 
kenada_blue said:
Rodwell goes...Gibson stays?


Football dies a slow death IMO.
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Gibson always looks to pass forward, whereas Rodwell always passes sideways. Gibson has the better shot, similar strength and is more experienced. I'd also say he's a better tackler. Genuinely believe he could go down as one of Moyes best bargains.
 
paulbefc said:
Gibson always looks to pass forward, whereas Rodwell always passes sideways. Gibson has the better shot, similar strength and is more experienced. I'd also say he's a better tackler. Genuinely believe he could go down as one of Moyes best bargains.
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Gibson has peaked. Rodwell hasnt.

Rodwell is better technically, calmer under pressure, never gives the ball away, and last seasons stats showed he played the same number of games as Gibson, in a worst side (minus Jelavic, Pienaar, Donovan), and came out on top.

The "pass sideways" notion is just a plain myth. You pass to a player available. Arteta always "passed sideways" - went to Arsenal and ended up creating more goal scoring opportunities than any other Arsenal player. Rodwell's not gonna give the ball away cheaply and try a hollywood pass to a static Cahill and Saha when there's more open options around him. Gibson had Pienaar, Jelavic and Donovan around him - of course he's gonna pick out a pass.

I've also seen Gibson try more hospital balls across our defence and give the ball away in 5 months of football than Rodwell has in his entire career.

Each to his own like. But Gibson's ability against his peer is masked a lot by his teammates
 

kenada_blue said:
Gibson has peaked. Rodwell hasnt.

Rodwell is better technically, calmer under pressure, never gives the ball away, and last seasons stats showed he played the same number of games as Gibson, in a worst side (minus Jelavic, Pienaar, Donovan), and came out on top.

The "pass sideways" notion is just a plain myth. You pass to a player available. Arteta always "passed sideways" - went to Arsenal and ended up creating more goal scoring opportunities than any other Arsenal player. Rodwell's not gonna give the ball away cheaply and try a hollywood pass to a static Cahill and Saha when there's more open options around him. Gibson had Pienaar, Jelavic and Donovan around him - of course he's gonna pick out a pass.

I've also seen Gibson try more hospital balls across our defence and give the ball away in 5 months of football than Rodwell has in his entire career.

Each to his own like. But Gibson's ability against his peer is masked a lot by his teammates
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As soon as Gibson came to the club he was looking to play more positively than Rodwell had been all season. The Aston Villa game was a good example. Pretty much everyone agreed that we looked a lot more positive with him in the side that day. Pienaar and Jelavic had yet to come to the club at that point.

Rodwell is too much of a passenger. I think we've had this discussion before but I am of the belief that he will never fulfill his "potential" and "peak" because he is pretty much the stereotypical modern English footballer. He is happy to fit in and not be noticed as long as he doesn't cock up. That attitude is why England are sh*te. He takes zero risks and creates barely anything. I actually don't enjoy watching the lad. No fire in the belly. Not competitive enough. The start of last season was better but still, we still noticed a positive change when Gibson came in which doesn't suggest he was really doing all that well, really.

Gibson, although not spectacular, fits in our team perfectly. He's Carsley mk II but with more attacking threat. His shots are a hell of a weapon that the Newcastle game illustrated we will look to use as much as possible.
 
paulbefc said:
As soon as Gibson came to the club he was looking to play more positively than Rodwell had been all season. The Aston Villa game was a good example. Pretty much everyone agreed that we looked a lot more positive with him in the side that day. Pienaar and Jelavic had yet to come to the club at that point.


Rodwell is too much of a passenger. I think we've had this discussion before but I am of the belief that he will never fulfill his "potential" and "peak" because he is pretty much the stereotypical modern English footballer. He is happy to fit in and not be noticed as long as he doesn't cock up. That attitude is why England are sh*te. He takes zero risks and creates barely anything. I actually don't enjoy watching the lad. No fire in the belly. Not competitive enough. The start of last season was better but still, we still noticed a positive change when Gibson came in which doesn't suggest he was really doing all that well, really.

Gibson, although not spectacular, fits in our team perfectly. He's Carsley mk II but with more attacking threat. His shots are a hell of a weapon that the Newcastle game illustrated we will look to use as much as possible.
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I barely see any positive play in his game. When he came, his disappeared for stretches while adding balance to a midfield as it shifted Neville or Heitinga out. Two draws against a poor Villa and a relegation struggling Blackburn with him playing didnt improve things at one end, as it was pretty much the same all season. The thing that did improve was having Landon Donovan and Drenthe on either wing ie movement over a static Cahill and Saha. Then Pienaar and Jelavic came in and that was that.

Saying "Gibson improved the midfield" to me is just a plain myth. He booted out 2 non-midfielders. He didnt just turn up and we started playing football again, he plugged a hole until our attacking unit turned up - an attacking unit not there when Rodwell was fit.

As for Rodwell playing it "safe" and not taking risks - he plays for a manager who bollocks players for taking risks. The whole no fire in his belly is just a stigma attached to players that arent badge kissing, hard-tackling, grunts.

You say England are **** because of players that fit in and not be noticed, when I see the complete difference to that - I see fist pumping, blood and thunder gut-busters with zero intelligence, ball retention skills and composure who are helped out by their squad players at club level. Rodwell is a new breed of youngster in tune with the modern game (why else as he on to his 3rd England cap after being injured for half a season?) - no ego, composure, ball retention, skill under pressure - like a Wilshire, Cleverly, Chamberlain etc. They're not Gerrard's or Lampard's, they're continental style players.

But even saying that, as mentioned before, you say Rodwell goes in his shell but yet in 13 games made more tackles than Gibson, won more 50-50's, man-marked one of the best players in the league out the game (until we eventually "attacked"), scored 2 goals and bagged 1 assist.

The biggest thing will be to see him in a full strength side, like Gibson has comfortably surrounded himself with, as IMO he can do all Gibson's work but can actually offer more if needed.

And I personally wouldnt call him a Carsley mk 2 either. Carsley broke up midfield play, kept it simple, allowed others to play. Fellaini breaks up 90% of everything in the midfield. Gibson cleans up after him.
 
kenada_blue said:
I barely see any positive play in his game. When he came, his disappeared for stretches while adding balance to a midfield as it shifted Neville or Heitinga out. Two draws against a poor Villa and a relegation struggling Blackburn with him playing didnt improve things at one end, as it was pretty much the same all season. The thing that did improve was having Landon Donovan and Drenthe on either wing ie movement over a static Cahill and Saha. Then Pienaar and Jelavic came in and that was that.

Saying "Gibson improved the midfield" to me is just a plain myth. He booted out 2 non-midfielders. He didnt just turn up and we started playing football again, he plugged a hole until our attacking unit turned up - an attacking unit not there when Rodwell was fit.

As for Rodwell playing it "safe" and not taking risks - he plays for a manager who bollocks players for taking risks. The whole no fire in his belly is just a stigma attached to players that arent badge kissing, hard-tackling, grunts.

You say England are **** because of players that fit in and not be noticed, when I see the complete difference to that - I see fist pumping, blood and thunder gut-busters with zero intelligence, ball retention skills and composure who are helped out by their squad players at club level. Rodwell is a new breed of youngster in tune with the modern game (why else as he on to his 3rd England cap after being injured for half a season?) - no ego, composure, ball retention, skill under pressure - like a Wilshire, Cleverly, Chamberlain etc. They're not Gerrard's or Lampard's, they're continental style players.

But even saying that, as mentioned before, you say Rodwell goes in his shell but yet in 13 games made more tackles than Gibson, won more 50-50's, man-marked one of the best players in the league out the game (until we eventually "attacked"), scored 2 goals and bagged 1 assist.

The biggest thing will be to see him in a full strength side, like Gibson has comfortably surrounded himself with, as IMO he can do all Gibson's work but can actually offer more if needed.

And I personally wouldnt call him a Carsley mk 2 either. Carsley broke up midfield play, kept it simple, allowed others to play. Fellaini breaks up 90% of everything in the midfield. Gibson cleans up after him.
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Bit hypocritical surely.

Okay, I'll be clearer. When I say Rodwell takes no risks, I mean he pretty much does nothing at all of any attacking worth. No offensive/through balls, no driving runs and doesn't pull the trigger enough. He'd rather play a sideways pass. I for one, appreciate Gibson's occasional speculative through ball attempt or long range shot.

Rodwell has barely played a through ball in the four years he's played for us. Gibson was coming into his own at the end of last season. I thought he looked brilliant against Newcastle because he actually added to the attack. Something he'd clearly been taught to do in training which seems to be the long term plan for him. He was showing himself on the edge of the box for a shot pretty much every time we attacked. A great alternative to attempting crosses and through balls when they're not working out. This is something I'd describe as taking a risk.

But yeah, I'm beyond convincing with Rodwell. If he comes good, great. But I would put my life savings on him remaining the player he is now.
 

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