Which is compleatly different from "THE MAIN" reason really isnt it.
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Which is compleatly different from "THE MAIN" reason really isnt it.
Foot Long Hot Dog
Player Valuation: A packet of pork scratchings
Which is it Dave; because it doesn't say that loan was taken out to build a new training ground?
Paying off debt = freeing up cash flow = development of business
So you're saying our debt is lower now? I don't think it is.
The loan was taken out in 2002, Finch Farm was aquired in 2006. So this money was just supposed to sit there??????
The mentioning of 'developing training facilities' was for Bellefield, it was so outdated it was unreal
Not all, where do i say that. I said it frees up cash flow, there is a huge difference
Sure but we haven't done it. Sacking all of our players would free up cash flow and develop the business too but since we haven't done either (despite getting rid of some players and some debts because we replaced them both with more players and more debts) I don't see why you've bought it up.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
The issue was whether the funds were available to get the training complex built to the standards they are now. You say the funds weren't there to do that. But, as we can see, the £25M was there to - in the words of Carter - 'develop the business', and a training ground was on the wish list. Whether it was the main reason for the loan or one of a number of priorities for the loan isn't the key issue. Funds were there. The board chose to pay down debt with the bulk of it.
It shouldn't be forgotten either that the context for that loan was the Kenwright balls up counting his chickens over £27M of NTL money.
steken1
Player Valuation: £70m
No, we had a piece of land available to redevelop. We also owned a piece of land roughly equal to the cost of the redevelopment. You don't have to be Mark Carney to see the obvious here. The delay in the sale of Bellefield was due to an over ambitious development which was never going to be approved.
The first 5 year option was available at 15.5m. 60% more than the cost of the development. The price continues to rise as the lease goes further. Considering we have to sell players to survive, how do you expect us to find this type of money? Sell Barkley? Take another loan at extortionate rates?
Can you tell me what either the Bellefield or FF money was used for?
A strategy of selling an asset to invest further in another area of business or grow your current one would be brilliant. I'd support that all day. All this points to is a hand to mouth existence of a business robbing peter to pay phil.
Then you look at every other aspect of how the business is run and again it's set up to benefit others before ourselves.
Every single strand of club operations is controlled by a third party. A common strategy to extract as much money from a business without directly taking from it's accounts.
You and I have no idea where the money went from the Bellefield sale? It was another question dodged by an increasingly uncomfortable looking CEO.
As to being stitched up how would you feel if the chairman of our neighbours bought the lease and attempted to change the terms?
Dell Boy
Player Valuation: £35m
Ken Right and here's why
I'm a new poster to this site and the stinging negative attitude towards Kenwright from some (not sure if it's a majority or not) is quite something for me. I posted in the Blue Union thread a few days back but I think its worth trying to set out here why I, and I hope/believe many others, support Kenwright and find the level of animosity towards him pretty hard to take.
First of all nothing is gained by having a go at fellow Evertonians. Those that support/trust/believe Kenwright are not brainwashed idiots. We can have opinions and my logic for supporting Bill goes something like this:
1. From day one he came out and said he only had so much cash/ability to help the club. He has said numerous times how he's personally put a huge amount on the line. He's said from day one that he is looking for a buyer that can put serious money into the club and would willingly step aside.
> Those that seem to hate Kenwright cry out that he's pricing the club too high, that he's placing demands on potential purchasers that have scared them away. Where's the proof that Kenwright has lied about this? With so many middle men in any such deal, surely one of them would have broken cover and revealed Kenwright's blocking tactics if ever there was an otherwise viable deal? They'd have everything to gain and nothing to lose.
2. Kenwright has said that any deal must be done with an investor/buyer that stands up and can be trusted with the club. I for one totally agree with this stance. I believe with the economy as it is today that there simply isn't the buyers out there full stop let alone for clubs in Everton's position with no physical assets of any real worth, no recent history of success and any potential marketing appeal hampered by the RS across the park
> To the Kenwright haters, where is the proof that there are creditable buyers out there? Looking at the league and takeovers in recent years I don't see any obvious success stories. Never mind the crap associated with Blackburn, Portsmouth and Birmingham we are always going to be much bigger and better than that. But look at a more comparable, but still smaller club like Villa. They're in a pretty poor state now and I remember all the crowing from some Evertonians wondering why Kenwright hadn't sold to Randy Lerner at the time. The first set of yanks were a stone's throw from seeing the RS into administration and the second lot seem hell bent on following their fat white gandhi of a manager down the yellow brick road to middle table oblivion. Mike Ashley at the Barcodes? He'd have the players running out to the sports direct advert jingo given half the chance. What's more if you take away Carrol's massive inflated transfer fee (likewise Torres for the RS) what's he done for them? United were already the biggest money making machine when the Glazers bought them and I can't see how they've taken the club forward on or off the field in their time. Forget the London clubs as they're all sat on potential land deals so that leaves Man City. Only Man City seem to have struck lucky.
3. Kenwright's a Blue and I trust him. The Blue Union recordings revealed a genuine man trying his best. He might come across as naive but surely a club with some sort of integrity wants that rather than Thaksin Shinawatra or the jolly brothers at West Ham?
> Where's the evidence that Kenwright has milked the club? In his 11 years what has he taken out of the club?
4. Lots of the anti-Kenwright stories talk about failed business plans and mis-management My business is involved in finance and I'll be honest I think the football world is crazy and I can't fathom it for one second. Player's wages alone are bonkers. The TV deal is of such magnitude that almost nothing else matters. It's said to be worth something like a £1 billion a year so, in that context, it seems ridiculous for fans to go mad at a sale and leaseback deal at Finch Farm or the failed development at the Park End.
The only thing that matters is the team and the squad. Last night the team I watched were better than opponents Arsenal. Compare that to 11 years ago when we'd often go to the likes of Charlton and hope to get a point nearer to the magic 40 to stay up. But for some dodgy decisons and bad luck this season we'd now be on our own in third looking to the Mancs rather than down to the rest. We've got a great chance of top 4 this year. Relegation isn't an issue and we're generally playing some great football. We are a cornerstone of the league at the minute and thus a major part of that TV deal.
> What real understanding do these Bill haters have of the football club business?. It's easy to point to increased other operating costs or whatever but what's the alternative plan? Our goal has to be to be competitive in the league. That's being achieved.
5. Another criticism of Kenwright seems to be that he just got lucky with Moyes and the development/sale of Rooney, Lescott etc. To me there's no answer to this if the person asking the question is trying to argue his/her point based on hypotheticals. We've got a great stable management of the club and seemingly a good structure for developing players
6. The final damnation for Kenwright supporters seems to be that by backing him we lack amition . To me that's utter rubbish. In running my business I pick the best strategy I can and then back it. If someone comes to me with another plan I ask for proof and evidence before I ditch the old one. On the basis that there isn't a wonderful Blue benefactor just waiting out there to drop in a few hundred million into our bank then our best chance of real success is to have a succesful attractive team. To make the top 4 and from that, in the world of major TV deals, hit upon an investor that wants us then. That to me is our only realistic hope and from what I can see we have a chance of it now.
And after all that I need a pint..
I'm a new poster to this site and the stinging negative attitude towards Kenwright from some (not sure if it's a majority or not) is quite something for me. I posted in the Blue Union thread a few days back but I think its worth trying to set out here why I, and I hope/believe many others, support Kenwright and find the level of animosity towards him pretty hard to take.
First of all nothing is gained by having a go at fellow Evertonians. Those that support/trust/believe Kenwright are not brainwashed idiots. We can have opinions and my logic for supporting Bill goes something like this:
1. From day one he came out and said he only had so much cash/ability to help the club. He has said numerous times how he's personally put a huge amount on the line. He's said from day one that he is looking for a buyer that can put serious money into the club and would willingly step aside.
> Those that seem to hate Kenwright cry out that he's pricing the club too high, that he's placing demands on potential purchasers that have scared them away. Where's the proof that Kenwright has lied about this? With so many middle men in any such deal, surely one of them would have broken cover and revealed Kenwright's blocking tactics if ever there was an otherwise viable deal? They'd have everything to gain and nothing to lose.
2. Kenwright has said that any deal must be done with an investor/buyer that stands up and can be trusted with the club. I for one totally agree with this stance. I believe with the economy as it is today that there simply isn't the buyers out there full stop let alone for clubs in Everton's position with no physical assets of any real worth, no recent history of success and any potential marketing appeal hampered by the RS across the park
> To the Kenwright haters, where is the proof that there are creditable buyers out there? Looking at the league and takeovers in recent years I don't see any obvious success stories. Never mind the crap associated with Blackburn, Portsmouth and Birmingham we are always going to be much bigger and better than that. But look at a more comparable, but still smaller club like Villa. They're in a pretty poor state now and I remember all the crowing from some Evertonians wondering why Kenwright hadn't sold to Randy Lerner at the time. The first set of yanks were a stone's throw from seeing the RS into administration and the second lot seem hell bent on following their fat white gandhi of a manager down the yellow brick road to middle table oblivion. Mike Ashley at the Barcodes? He'd have the players running out to the sports direct advert jingo given half the chance. What's more if you take away Carrol's massive inflated transfer fee (likewise Torres for the RS) what's he done for them? United were already the biggest money making machine when the Glazers bought them and I can't see how they've taken the club forward on or off the field in their time. Forget the London clubs as they're all sat on potential land deals so that leaves Man City. Only Man City seem to have struck lucky.
3. Kenwright's a Blue and I trust him. The Blue Union recordings revealed a genuine man trying his best. He might come across as naive but surely a club with some sort of integrity wants that rather than Thaksin Shinawatra or the jolly brothers at West Ham?
> Where's the evidence that Kenwright has milked the club? In his 11 years what has he taken out of the club?
4. Lots of the anti-Kenwright stories talk about failed business plans and mis-management My business is involved in finance and I'll be honest I think the football world is crazy and I can't fathom it for one second. Player's wages alone are bonkers. The TV deal is of such magnitude that almost nothing else matters. It's said to be worth something like a £1 billion a year so, in that context, it seems ridiculous for fans to go mad at a sale and leaseback deal at Finch Farm or the failed development at the Park End.
The only thing that matters is the team and the squad. Last night the team I watched were better than opponents Arsenal. Compare that to 11 years ago when we'd often go to the likes of Charlton and hope to get a point nearer to the magic 40 to stay up. But for some dodgy decisons and bad luck this season we'd now be on our own in third looking to the Mancs rather than down to the rest. We've got a great chance of top 4 this year. Relegation isn't an issue and we're generally playing some great football. We are a cornerstone of the league at the minute and thus a major part of that TV deal.
> What real understanding do these Bill haters have of the football club business?. It's easy to point to increased other operating costs or whatever but what's the alternative plan? Our goal has to be to be competitive in the league. That's being achieved.
5. Another criticism of Kenwright seems to be that he just got lucky with Moyes and the development/sale of Rooney, Lescott etc. To me there's no answer to this if the person asking the question is trying to argue his/her point based on hypotheticals. We've got a great stable management of the club and seemingly a good structure for developing players
6. The final damnation for Kenwright supporters seems to be that by backing him we lack amition . To me that's utter rubbish. In running my business I pick the best strategy I can and then back it. If someone comes to me with another plan I ask for proof and evidence before I ditch the old one. On the basis that there isn't a wonderful Blue benefactor just waiting out there to drop in a few hundred million into our bank then our best chance of real success is to have a succesful attractive team. To make the top 4 and from that, in the world of major TV deals, hit upon an investor that wants us then. That to me is our only realistic hope and from what I can see we have a chance of it now.
And after all that I need a pint..
Ihaters
Player Valuation: £35m
Actually agree with much of that. But can you really accept missing out on Kings dock, the Kirkby attempt, ending the AGM's, the lies and the lack of off field progress?
He gets a lot of stick that he shouldn't but a lot that he should.
He needs to go but will be thanked by some, me included when he does
He gets a lot of stick that he shouldn't but a lot that he should.
He needs to go but will be thanked by some, me included when he does
I must say the board have done a fantastic job of keeping Goodison standing after the claims (by them) that we were very close to losing our safety certificate about 6 years ago.
CLAP CLAP CLAP.
CLAP CLAP CLAP.
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