The EU deal

[Cypher]

Trouble it seems that its not just the Dutch who want out. A Vote Leave for the UK could spark a wider break down of the European Union.

The fact that everyone wants out. What does that tell you?

 

[Jacko93]

The fact that everyone wants out. What does that tell you?

That we are all affected differently as part of the trading bloc?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Why would that be a concern for the UK.....

That's exactly what Chamberlain said about Czechoslovakia. Even if there is no direct impact, the UK has a long and proud history of upholding the ideals and liberal values of freedom and democracy. Much blood has been spilt to protect and promote such values. It would be a dark day in our history of we shrugged our shoulders and said that's none of our business.

 

[Cypher]

That we are all affected differently as part of the trading bloc?

Or maybe it's not just a trading bloc.

 

[peteblue]

What is it with these bullying Germans, has history taught them nothing about the British......

"Elmar Brok, German member of the European Parliament Committee, said it will simply be “divorce proceedings” and warned that the migrant crisis will only get worse for the UK if we quit the 28-nation bloc.

He said there will be no “re-negotiations about a new deal.

“We don't want to have a precedence for other countries, that shows it is worth-while to be against it in the first instance, only to get more out of it later.”

Elmar Brok, German member of the European Parliament Committee, said it will simply be “divorce proceedings” and warned that the migrant crisis will only get worse for the UK if we quit the 28-nation bloc.

He said there will be no “re-negotiations about a new deal.

“We don't want to have a precedence for other countries, that shows it is worth-while to be against it in the first instance, only to get more out of it later.”

It is the latest bout of scaremongering to come from the European powerhouse after Angela Merkel waded into the debate headfirst by warning Britain it “won’t get a good deal” if it backs Brexit.

We don't want to have a precedence for other countries, that shows it is worth-while to be against it in the first instance, only to get more out of it later
Elmar Brok, German member of the European Parliament Committee
Mr Brok’s comments also engulf David Cameon’s ‘Panic Fear’ camp, as he warned French border controls would be diminished in the event of a British exodus from Brussels.

He fumed that the current British debate about the dangers of migration is “a made up discussion, that conveys false and unfounded security.”

He added: “The British have to realise that the protection they get from us, for example by the French in Calais, would then disappear.”

Mr Brok also warned that if the UK want to profit from the domestic market, the freedom of movement of employees would have to be guaranteed.

He said: “They will not be the exception,” pointing towards Switzerland and Norway, who also have to grant free movement, even though they are not EU members Germans are desperately pleading with Britain to remain in the EU as a poll revealed 80 per cent of them want us to stay.

An overwhelming four out of five people living in Germany do not want us to back Brexit.

Reinforcing this panicked plea, Mr Brok added: “It is in the interest of both sides, but even more in the British interest, that we stay together.

“The willingness on our side exists. We should look at facts and not listen to emotions brought on by our past.”

But the EU parliament member said he would respect a British decision to leave the EU.

It comes after it today emerged that the escalating migrant crisis and rise of the far-right in Europe is threatening to pull Mrs Merkel’s government apart in what has been dubbed the party’s “worst internal crisis in 40 years”.

 

[Neiler]

You can go to the US for a few months at a time without a VISA. I think taking a trip over to Dub to watch the footie won't be an issue.

I think you could be surprised. Especially with above incidents and sectarian undertones again using Ireland as an Example. All you need is a coupple of Fanta scruffs or Celtic fans tearing up the centre of Amsterdam, you have to remember the liberties you are potentially giving away.

 

[daylightrobber]

There have been a few articles and polls, seems pretty clear they wants to stay, even France.......

The French want us out more than any other EU country, but it is still not a majority. They want us out because they see the opportunity to fill a possible trade gap. They would happily take our share of joint ventures in aeronauticals/aerospace. They would also love to see tariffs on our cars.

 

[Cypher]

That's exactly what Chamberlain said about Czechoslovakia. Even if there is no direct impact, the UK has a long and proud history of upholding the ideals and liberal values of freedom and democracy. Much blood has been spilt to protect and promote such values. It would be a dark day in our history of we shrugged our shoulders and said that's none of our business.

We are voting to preserve liberal ideas of freedom and democracy.

Unless your idea of freedom and democracy is an undemocratic superstate that is now actively censoring it's own citizens by labeling anything it disagrees with as hate speech and bullying it's smaller nations and governments.

 

[peteblue]

That's exactly what Chamberlain said about Czechoslovakia. Even if there is no direct impact, the UK has a long and proud history of upholding the ideals and liberal values of freedom and democracy. Much blood has been spilt to protect and promote such values. It would be a dark day in our history of we shrugged our shoulders and said that's none of our business.

That's right Bruce. Britain has expended much blood and treasure upholding those ideals and helping others......and got sod all by way of thanks back. Even now, when we want to run our own country again, the continent that we helped to save are trying to bully us into remaining.....

 

[daylightrobber]

We are voting to preserve liberal ideas of freedom and democracy.

Unless your idea of freedom and democracy is an undemocratic superstate that is now actively censoring it's own citizens by labeling anything it disagrees with as hate speech and bullying it's smaller nations and governments.

By closing our borders and restricting the free movement of our own peoples.

 

[peteblue]

That we are all affected differently as part of the trading bloc?

If it were only a trading block, like I voted to join.......

 

[magicjuan]

Yea Catholics don't believe in all that end time mumbo jumbo. There are churches in the US I think think that about the EU but not sure.

As for official doctrine. The woman quoted below the article was Elaine Pagels who is a famous Ghostic and early Christian author and as far from official doctrine as you can get. You just simply aren't making any sense going down this argument.

Christianity spread as I described. Will Islam do the same in Europe. Who really knows but the similarities are striking.

I think if you read more than just a snippet of Elaine Pagels work you will find a greater deal. I have. I have studied the origins of Christianity for many, many years and haven't been selective on authors.

Catholicism still recognises the book of Revelations, it was selected and adopted, but excluded the gospel of Jesus, of Mary and Thomas. All existing documents found at Nag Hammadi. The bible isn't the word of God. The bible is an adopted series of stories from other religions prior to Judaism. The subsequent 'new testament' is a political theosophy similar to Islam and is capitalist and exclusionist equally.

As for gnosticism, well, if you delve into it you will find that is as different to Christianity as it could be, save for the Cathars and Bogomils and theirs was an amalgamated faith drawing from the heretical orthodoxies of Turkey that included a different form of 'christianity' that doesn't recognise any of the catholic traits.

You are making no sense either. I am pointing out that the adopted beliefs of existing Christianity and its origins have absolutely no relevance to Islam shaping any destiny in Europe and the fearmongering of immigration adopted by the Brexit campaign as its lead justification is, shall we say, un-christian?

 

[Jacko93]

Or maybe it's not just a trading bloc.

I don't believe that it is. I'm really torn on the whole issue tbh. The problem is that none of us are able to see into the future, we can use all the information given to us (not much in this case) and use that to form an argument, I just don't think that I've got the right stuff to build an argument with yet.

There are good points either side I just wish they would focus on them rather than the rubbish they're coming out with.

I am absolutely norrarsed about people coming into the country, regardless of where their from, it all adds up the rich tapestry of what makes us, us, adding to our Norse or Viking, or Saxon backgrounds. I don't care about peoples beliefs, as I don't really have one in a religious sense, so I have no bias.

What I don't want though is for our elected governments to become effectively powerless to implement their manifestos, and I want them to stop using EU governance as an excuse leading to "Well we would've but for" politics. But on the other hand, we need somebody to control the Tories or there'll be no country left for anybody to do trade with.

 

[SNova]

Trouble it seems that its not just the Dutch who want out. A Vote Leave for the UK could spark a wider break down of the European Union.

Brilliant isn't it.

 

[peteblue]

What if it works the other way though, what happens if Joe Public is denied admittance or restrictions to certain other European Countries. Say when English fans tore up Landsdowne Road, what would happen if getting a visa to Ireland was restricted, no more long weekends in Dublin etc, using Ireland as an example here, but the point is broader.

There won't be an issue for the law abiding.......