Current Affairs the Centre is...

[dholliday]

I'm noticing a phase of harsh criticism heading to those who identify with something called the political centre, or middle/moderate-ground, or better yet the compromise position - remember that crazy concept? - The centre is not cleanly-defined, as it includes those of us who are free-thinkers (with positions which come from both the Left and the Right).

What is this criticism and why is there a lot of it right now? Here's one extreme example, this coming from an article from the dogma-ridden Guardian on why UK Corbynism & the US Ocasio-Cortez hype machine aren't running things already:

"More than ever, it would seem that the greatest enemy of the Left isn’t the Right, but the Centre."

I've seen multiple variations of this over the last few months, but hardly ever in the years before. As the Right (from the perspective of the Left) have become so cartooningly-bad, is the Centre the next target? Or next "enemy" even?

What's going on? I reckon it's the natural flow of polarisation seeking to destroy anything other than 'black' & 'white'. Anything that can't be defined as being 'us' or 'them' is an unthing and must be corrected so that it fits into one of the defined two sides, therefore becoming something, an identifiable thing with a label. Something which is black or white, right or wrong, good or evil. Something with which one can better define oneself with, as it's easily opposable (he's wrong, so I'm right...he's bad, so i'm virtuous etc). You can't really do that with someone from the political centre, so you're left with questioning your own identity (what am I if I'm not the opposite of them?).


I might be over-thinking this lol anywayz, what do yous think?

 

[SerenityNigh]

It's not always the only reasonable option, but it's cowards and people too stupid to think who describe center political positions as "weak"

 

[ilikecheese]

It's not always the only reasonable option, but it's cowards and people too stupid to think who describe center political positions as "weak"

Centrists don't get likes on Twitter.

 

[dholliday]

It's not always the only reasonable option,

true, i should've worded it "often the sensible fair option" rather than "only".

it's cowards and people too stupid to think who describe center political positions as "weak"

interesting...one of the best pieces of advice i ever got was my old boss telling me that there are many stupid people out there, just plain old stupid...simply accepting this has helped me deal better with all manner of everyday situations.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Centrists don't get likes on Twitter.

Warm take

 

[ilikecheese]

Warm take

Room temperature.

 

[SerenityNigh]

true, i should've worded it "often the sensible fair option" rather than "only".

For me, the issue is that I see the appeal in positions from both sides on certain topics. So I see both of the mainstream American parties as wrong quite often. (And both parties probably reciprocate the feeling towards me, I'm sure).

And I hate rent seekers. That plays a role in my view as well.

Also, I really don't like the "Never Trump" cowards who voted third party because they didn't want to pull the trigger on Trump or Clinton, as if being negligent of your responsibility to vote isn't moral cowardice.*

*I mean, if you want to vote third party, do it, but doing it because you can't make a choice between the two isn't a morally superior choice

**Let me know if there are any other groups I can offend, and I'm sure I can add them in as well...

 

[Tubey]

I reckon it's the natural flow of polarisation seeking to destroy anything other than 'black' & 'white'. Anything that can't be defined as being 'us' or 'them' is an unthing and must be corrected so that it fits into one of the defined two sides, therefore becoming something, an identifiable thing with a label.

You reckon correctly.

 

[dholliday]

For me, the issue is that I see the appeal in positions from both sides on certain topics. So I see both of the mainstream American parties as wrong quite often. (And both parties probably reciprocate the feeling towards me, I'm sure).

And I hate rent seekers. That plays a role in my view as well.
Also, I really don't like the "Never Trump" cowards who voted third party because they didn't want to pull the trigger on Trump or Clinton, as if being negligent of your responsibility to vote isn't moral cowardice.*

*I mean, if you want to vote third party, do it, but doing it because you can't make a choice between the two isn't a morally superior choice

**Let me know if there are any other groups I can offend, and I'm sure I can add them in as well...

Good post, I think we think similar. The bolded bit I agree isn't necessarily the morally superior choice, but there's still a solid argument for it being so: i.e. refusing the lesser of two evils option by ignoring both and voting for e.g. Jill Stein is at least a thinking statement which refutes evil. If I was a voting American, I might've gone Jill Stein too. Is that centrism? Or is generally not choosing a side centrism? And is it the not-choosing-a-side thing which irks? I know football fans who don't have a team and always found it odd, but that's a game where it's fun to have winners & losers. In politics non-tribal should be the natural position as the idea shouldn't be to create losers...ideally.

I'm not quite getting what rent-seekers have to do with centrism, tho'.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

It’s a nonsensical question as what people identify as being the centre ground is subjective.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Good post, I think we think similar. The bolded bit I agree isn't necessarily the morally superior choice, but there's still a solid argument for it being so: i.e. refusing the lesser of two evils option by ignoring both and voting for e.g. Jill Stein is at least a thinking statement which refutes evil. If I was a voting American, I might've gone Jill Stein too. Is that centrism? Or is generally not choosing a side centrism? And is it the not-choosing-a-side thing which irks? I know football fans who don't have a team and always found it odd, but that's a game where it's fun to have winners & losers. In politics non-tribal should be the natural position as the idea shouldn't be to create losers...surely.

I'm not quite getting what rent-seekers have to do with centrism, tho'.

By rent seekers, I'm specifically referring to the cowardly GOP who won't ditch Trump because he's "good for the party," but it applies to the Left as well

I'm all for people who prefer Stein, and people who prefer third ways or other candidates. But in 2016 there was a small, but noisy, "Never Trump" movement of GOP people who voted third party, thinking it would help crater Trump's support. The rhetoric, as I understand it, would be to absolve them personally from voting "for" Clinton, but also help Trump lose. In the end, these cowards did neither, and they bear the shame of their cowardice in their actions.

As for what is centrism, there are many takes on this; I think in mainstream America it is people who have political views blended between the two parties. For me, I'm probably most closely aligned to the "Blue Dog Democrats" as they used to be called, although I wouldn't describe myself as a Dem.

 

[Tubey]

It’s a nonsensical question as what people identify as being the centre ground is subjective.

He said that it's not a clearly defined position.

For me, it's someone who will look at any given subject with as much objectivity as possible, and disregard the default positions taken up by both left and right to draw their own conclusion.

For example, if you support one Tory policy, it doesn't make you a Tory - it means you support one Tory policy.

 

[SerenityNigh]

He said that it's not a clearly defined position.

For me, it's someone who will look at any given subject with as much objectivity as possible, and disregard the default positions taken up by both left and right to draw their own conclusion.

For example, if you support one Tory policy, it doesn't make you a Tory - it means you support one Tory policy.

I agree if you replace objectivity with nonpartisanship

I would love to be entirely objective all the time, but I realize I have my own biases, and these influence my views on topics all the time, and I expect most people act similarly

 

[longers]

Fence sitting whoppers who like to think of themselves as being a calm and rational voice of reason.

Im half joking but centrists I know tend to think of themselves as wise sages who are above both the left and right.

 

[Tubey]

I agree if you replace objectivity with nonpartisanship

I would love to be entirely objective all the time, but I realize I have my own biases, and these influence my views on topics all the time, and I expect most people act similarly

Yeah I'd agree actually, that's a better word. Nobody can be objective all the time, it's impossible as everyone has life experience and influences.

But there's a sizeable and increasing amount of people who will simply take default positions based on an existing cause. They don't think for themselves. It's a result of extreme politics becoming the norm, and you usually see wars etc. as a result when things take this turn throughout history.