Current Affairs The benefits of Brexit Page

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I wouldn't necessarily argue with your point Bruce, but I'm guessing that you see trade negotiations as a negative thing that both Germany and Trump would want to put on the back burner.

I'm not sure I agree with you in that. The UK is Germany's biggest trading partner, certainly as regards exports, and I think that most German people will be keen to see a trade deal agreed with the UK as soon as possible. As regards Trump, it's fair to say that people in the US either love him or hate him. If Trump tells the US people that he's agreed a terrific new trade deal with the UK, then those that are going to vote for him anyway will believe him.

Not so much put on the backburner, but politicians main goal is to get themselves re-elected. There have been a few studies conducted around the world, and it's common for the first few years of office being about doing what's right for the country, and as elections loom, they consistently shift to do what's best to get them re-elected.

So this basic truism means that a trade deal will be less of a focus compared to visiting hospitals or hugging babies, and the trade negotiations will have a strong emphasis on local matters, especially if there are strong political reasons for doing so (US steel workers or Bavarian car companies) that could swing an election for Trump/Merkel. It's in this pre-election period that the common sense that Britain is relying on goes out of the window, and the leveraging of strong bargaining positions is used to win some local political points.

Now you 'might' believe Truss when she says they will walk away from a bad deal, but given the Tories are in year one of their own five year cycle, there's very little incentive for them to pursue such tribalism as opposed to what is best for the country.
 
Not so much put on the backburner, but politicians main goal is to get themselves re-elected. There have been a few studies conducted around the world, and it's common for the first few years of office being about doing what's right for the country, and as elections loom, they consistently shift to do what's best to get them re-elected.

So this basic truism means that a trade deal will be less of a focus compared to visiting hospitals or hugging babies, and the trade negotiations will have a strong emphasis on local matters, especially if there are strong political reasons for doing so (US steel workers or Bavarian car companies) that could swing an election for Trump/Merkel. It's in this pre-election period that the common sense that Britain is relying on goes out of the window, and the leveraging of strong bargaining positions is used to win some local political points.

Now you 'might' believe Truss when she says they will walk away from a bad deal, but given the Tories are in year one of their own five year cycle, there's very little incentive for them to pursue such tribalism as opposed to what is best for the country.
Yeah.

You've mentioned 2 things that confirm what I'm saying Bruce. German car workers want a free trade deal. They're not really that bothered if French fisherman have to give up some of their quota as long as their own jobs in the German motor industry are secured. Getting a deal done before the elections could well improve Merkel's lot. Likewise with Trump and the steelworkers, if Trump tells them it's a good deal. Both have an incentive to focus on a deal, even during the run up to the election.

I agree with your overall point, I just think Germany and Trumps America are wrong examples to give. Now if you'd said France and Spain;)
 
Yeah.

You've mentioned 2 things that confirm what I'm saying Bruce. German car workers want a free trade deal. They're not really that bothered if French fisherman have to give up some of their quota as long as their own jobs in the German motor industry are secured. Getting a deal done before the elections could well improve Merkel's lot. Likewise with Trump and the steelworkers, if Trump tells them it's a good deal. Both have an incentive to focus on a deal, even during the run up to the election.

I agree with your overall point, I just think Germany and Trumps America are wrong examples to give. Now if you'd said France and Spain;)

I'm not sure you're understanding the point. In a non-election period, there's a good incentive for both parties to seek a win-win outcome as that's the rational outcome. In an election period, Trump doesn't give two hoots about Britain. Think of the tariffs on China as an example. Everyone knows they hurt America, but he did them because they boosted his base. His base isn't going to care about giving Britain a good deal, and nothing in Trump's history suggests that's likely. He sees trade in zero sum terms, and in an election period, that's even more so.

I'm suggesting that because Germany and the US are in election periods, they are more likely to play hard ball, which given the timescales the government have forced upon us, means it's more likely we end with a poor deal, or no deal at all. We've seen this in Britain with the Tories setting stupid timetables on the negotiations, purely because they were in an election and wanted to appear tough.
 
I'm not sure you're understanding the point. In a non-election period, there's a good incentive for both parties to seek a win-win outcome as that's the rational outcome. In an election period, Trump doesn't give two hoots about Britain. Think of the tariffs on China as an example. Everyone knows they hurt America, but he did them because they boosted his base. His base isn't going to care about giving Britain a good deal, and nothing in Trump's history suggests that's likely. He sees trade in zero sum terms, and in an election period, that's even more so.

I'm suggesting that because Germany and the US are in election periods, they are more likely to play hard ball, which given the timescales the government have forced upon us, means it's more likely we end with a poor deal, or no deal at all. We've seen this in Britain with the Tories setting stupid timetables on the negotiations, purely because they were in an election and wanted to appear tough.
No, I do get what you are saying Bruce. I can see why studies have come up with these conclusions and, generally speaking, I would normally be in agreement. I just think that both Germany and Donald Trumps USA are not good examples when you are trying to prove the rule.

The last thing you should be doing is trying to pigeon hole Trump, because he is not a politician, and is just as likely to do the opposite of what you expect. He lives in his own little narcissistic world and believes all his own hype. What's more, his supporters do too, as amazing as that appears to people like us. I think he could very easily look at a trade deal with the UK as a vote winner for him, so he could actually do the opposite to what you expect and give it more focus during an election period rather than less.

As regards Germany, I really don't think the German people are bothered about scoring points against the Brits. They know they need a trade deal with the UK. more so than any other EU country, and for that reason I think Merkel could easily see it as a vote winner and act the opposite to what you expect.

Having said that, it's just my opinion and I could easily be totally wrong on both counts. But I do understand what you are saying though.

I do agree with you as regards the self imposed timetable Johnson has given us though. Take the extra year on offer FFS you utterly stupid man.
 
I do agree with you as regards the self imposed timetable Johnson has given us though. Take the extra year on offer FFS you utterly stupid man.

I actually think he has done ok with that. As you know, I voted remain, but we are where are now. Take the second year, then the 3rd, then the 4th?

This just needs sorting.
 
I actually think he has done ok with that. As you know, I voted remain, but we are where are now. Take the second year, then the 3rd, then the 4th?

This just needs sorting.
Even though everyone seems convinced that it cant be sorted within a year?
 
I actually think he has done ok with that. As you know, I voted remain, but we are where are now. Take the second year, then the 3rd, then the 4th?

This just needs sorting.
I agree it needs sorting mate but it also needs sorting properly. When May had her deal on the table, the transition period was just under 2 years in which we could negotiate the future agreement. As it took as the best part of a year to actually agree a withdrawal agreement, all the EU has done is given us the option of an additional 12 months extension, if needed, to give us the same period of negotiation.

Yes, lets get it sorted by the end of the year if that's possible, but if it isn't, then take the option of the extra year that's on the table. There's no valid reason for not doing so if you want to get the best deal possible.
 
Even though everyone seems convinced that it cant be sorted within a year?

Just want it sorted. Like it will be a massive compromise all round anyrate. If FOM becomes the the big issue for Johnson to sign up for, he will make some fudge about FOM with a job or some bollox. The Irish border will be similar.

Too many vested/business interests to be facilitated after nearly 50 years of trade and cooperation. Farage and the loons will fume, but I reckon Johnson will see the bigger picture.

That said, no idea really. Just cant see any appetite for more delays.
 
I agree it needs sorting mate but it also needs sorting properly. When May had her deal on the table, the transition period was just under 2 years in which we could negotiate the future agreement. As it took as the best part of a year to actually agree a withdrawal agreement, all the EU has done is given us the option of an additional 12 months extension, if needed, to give us the same period of negotiation.

Yes, lets get it sorted by the end of the year if that's possible, but if it isn't, then take the option of the extra year that's on the table. There's no valid reason for not doing so if you want to get the best deal possible.

Get Brexit Done was the war cry.
 
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