Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread
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dandydan
Player Valuation: £40m
I'm pro all those things. Funny for a right wing BIGOT!!! Isn't it?
dandydan
Player Valuation: £40m
He tried to make it all about him. Plus the fact he has constantly apologised for Islamic terrorism didn't sit too well. A shame he couldn't stick around and defend his position but he is used to blocking dissenters online.
I mean banning abortion is proven to just lead to people doing illegal abortions and so more deaths due to complications.
It's like the worst metaphor you can possibly use for why a gun ban is a good idea.
It's like the worst metaphor you can possibly use for why a gun ban is a good idea.
I would never argue against greater gun control/banning guns in this country.
Sadly I honestly don't believe the notion to be possible over here. Every time the idea of just adding further requirements to own a gun, the right wing completely flips out. Obviously, removing them altogether would be the ideal scenario, but if we can't even get stricter laws to be passed, I can never see us getting rid of them altogether.
Pretty much my opinion as a foreigner. Not a genie that can be put back in the bottle.
Honestly, though. Gun control isn't my main thoughts right now.
I'm just really angry at seeing gay friend after gay friend posting bullshit 'not all muslim' stuff on my social media. Yes, not all of them do hate us. But lots of them bloody do. Count the muslim majority countries which have homosexuality as a crime and have male homosexuals castrated or killed and then count the ones that give us rights.
It's not a coincidence that this was done by a muslim.
summerisle
The rain, it raineth every day
http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/20...laims_the_ar_15_rifle_is_for_hunting_and.html
The NRA Claims the AR-15 Is Useful for Hunting and Home Defense. Not Exactly.
An AR-15-type rifle
According to police in Orlando, Florida, an AR-15 assault rifle was recovered from Omar Mateen, the 29-year-old Florida man who killed at least 50 people at the gay nightclub Pulse. The AR-15 is the same weapon used by Adam Lanza, who killed 26 people, 20 of them children, at Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012. After the Sandy Hook shooting, Justin Peters wrote that “the AR-15 is very good at one thing: engaging the enemy at a rapid rate of fire.” The original piece is reprinted below.
Justin Peters is a Slate correspondent and the author of The Idealist: Aaron Swartz and the Rise of Free Culture on the Internet.
On Dec. 24, in Webster, New York, an ex-con namedWilliam Spengler set fire to his house and then shot and killed two responding firefighters before taking his own life. He shot them with a Bushmaster AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle—the same weapon that Adam Lanza used 10 days earlier when he shot and killed 26 people at Sandy Hook Elementary. James Holmes used an AR-15-style rifle with a detachable 100-round magazine this past summer when he shot up a movie theater in Colorado. (Though the AR-15 is a specific model of rifle made by Colt, the term has come to generically refer to the many other rifles built to similar specifications.)
I generally consider myself a Second Amendment supporter, and I haven’t yet decided where I stand on post-Newtown gun control. I would own a gun if New York City laws didn’t make it extremely difficult to do so. But I nevertheless find Keene’s arguments disingenuous. It’s odd to cite hunting and home defense as reasons to keep selling a rifle that’s not particularly well suited, and definitely not necessary, for either. Bolt-action rifles and shotguns can also be used for hunting and home defense. Unfortunately, those guns aren’t particularly lucrative for gunmakers. The lobby’s fervent defense of military-style semi-automatic weapons like the AR-15 seems motivated primarily by a desire to protect the profits in the rapidly growing “modern sporting rifle” segment of the industry.
But the AR-15 is not ideal for the hunting and home-defense uses that the NRA’s Keene cited today. Though it can be used for hunting, the AR-15 isn’t really a hunting rifle. Its standard .223 caliber ammunition doesn’t offer much stopping power for anything other than small game. Hunters themselves find the rifle controversial, with some arguing AR-15-style rifles empower sloppy, “spray and pray” hunters to waste ammunition. (The officialBushmaster XM15 manual lists the maximum effective rate of fire at 45 rounds per minute.) As one hunter put it in the comments section of an article onamericanhunter.org, “I served in the military and the M16A2/M4 was the weapon I used for 20 years. It is first and foremost designed as an assault weapon platform, no matter what the spin. A hunter does not need a semi-automatic rifle to hunt, if he does he sucks, and should go play video games. I see more men running around the bush all cammo'd up with assault vests and face paint with tricked out AR's. These are not hunters but wannabe weekend warriors.”
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As the NRA’s David Keene notes, a lot of people do use modern sporting rifles for target shooting and in marksmanship competitions. But the guns also appeal to another demographic that doesn’t get nearly as much press—paranoid survivalists who worry about having to fend off thieves and trespassers in the event of disaster. Online shooting message boards are rife with references to potential “SHTF scenarios,” where SHTF stands for “[Poor language removed] hits the fan”—governmental collapse, societal breakdown. (Adam Lanza’s mother, Nancy Lanza,has been described as “a gun-hoarding survivalist who was stockpiling weapons in preparation for an economic collapse.”) An article on ar15.com titled “The Ideal Rifle” notes that “the threats from crime, terrorism, natural disaster, and weapons of mass destruction are real. If something were to happen today, you would need to have made a decision about the rifle you would select and be prepared for such an event. So the need to select a ‘survival’ rifle is real. Selecting a single ‘ideal rifle’ is not easy. The AR-15 series of rifles comes out ahead when compared to everything else.” Depending on where you live, it’s perfectly legal to stockpile weapons to use in the event of Armageddon. But that’s a far different argument than the ones firearms advocates have been using since the Newtown shootings.
As I said, I generally think of myself as a Second Amendment supporter, and a month ago, I would’ve probably agreed with the NRA’s position. But the Newtown shooting caused me to re-examine my stance—as is, I think, fitting—and to question some of the rhetoric advocates use to defend weapons like this. In his piece at Human Events, Keene ridiculed the notion that AR-15-style rifles ought to be banned just because“a half dozen [AR-15s] out of more than three million have been misused after illegally falling into the hands of crazed killers.” But the AR-15 is very good at one thing: engaging the enemy at a rapid rate of fire. When someone like Adam Lanza uses it to take out 26 people in a matter of minutes, he’s committing a crime, but he isn’t misusing the rifle. That’s exactly what it was engineered to do.
The NRA Claims the AR-15 Is Useful for Hunting and Home Defense. Not Exactly.
An AR-15-type rifle
According to police in Orlando, Florida, an AR-15 assault rifle was recovered from Omar Mateen, the 29-year-old Florida man who killed at least 50 people at the gay nightclub Pulse. The AR-15 is the same weapon used by Adam Lanza, who killed 26 people, 20 of them children, at Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012. After the Sandy Hook shooting, Justin Peters wrote that “the AR-15 is very good at one thing: engaging the enemy at a rapid rate of fire.” The original piece is reprinted below.
Justin Peters is a Slate correspondent and the author of The Idealist: Aaron Swartz and the Rise of Free Culture on the Internet.
On Dec. 24, in Webster, New York, an ex-con namedWilliam Spengler set fire to his house and then shot and killed two responding firefighters before taking his own life. He shot them with a Bushmaster AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle—the same weapon that Adam Lanza used 10 days earlier when he shot and killed 26 people at Sandy Hook Elementary. James Holmes used an AR-15-style rifle with a detachable 100-round magazine this past summer when he shot up a movie theater in Colorado. (Though the AR-15 is a specific model of rifle made by Colt, the term has come to generically refer to the many other rifles built to similar specifications.)
I generally consider myself a Second Amendment supporter, and I haven’t yet decided where I stand on post-Newtown gun control. I would own a gun if New York City laws didn’t make it extremely difficult to do so. But I nevertheless find Keene’s arguments disingenuous. It’s odd to cite hunting and home defense as reasons to keep selling a rifle that’s not particularly well suited, and definitely not necessary, for either. Bolt-action rifles and shotguns can also be used for hunting and home defense. Unfortunately, those guns aren’t particularly lucrative for gunmakers. The lobby’s fervent defense of military-style semi-automatic weapons like the AR-15 seems motivated primarily by a desire to protect the profits in the rapidly growing “modern sporting rifle” segment of the industry.
But the AR-15 is not ideal for the hunting and home-defense uses that the NRA’s Keene cited today. Though it can be used for hunting, the AR-15 isn’t really a hunting rifle. Its standard .223 caliber ammunition doesn’t offer much stopping power for anything other than small game. Hunters themselves find the rifle controversial, with some arguing AR-15-style rifles empower sloppy, “spray and pray” hunters to waste ammunition. (The officialBushmaster XM15 manual lists the maximum effective rate of fire at 45 rounds per minute.) As one hunter put it in the comments section of an article onamericanhunter.org, “I served in the military and the M16A2/M4 was the weapon I used for 20 years. It is first and foremost designed as an assault weapon platform, no matter what the spin. A hunter does not need a semi-automatic rifle to hunt, if he does he sucks, and should go play video games. I see more men running around the bush all cammo'd up with assault vests and face paint with tricked out AR's. These are not hunters but wannabe weekend warriors.”
Advertisement
As the NRA’s David Keene notes, a lot of people do use modern sporting rifles for target shooting and in marksmanship competitions. But the guns also appeal to another demographic that doesn’t get nearly as much press—paranoid survivalists who worry about having to fend off thieves and trespassers in the event of disaster. Online shooting message boards are rife with references to potential “SHTF scenarios,” where SHTF stands for “[Poor language removed] hits the fan”—governmental collapse, societal breakdown. (Adam Lanza’s mother, Nancy Lanza,has been described as “a gun-hoarding survivalist who was stockpiling weapons in preparation for an economic collapse.”) An article on ar15.com titled “The Ideal Rifle” notes that “the threats from crime, terrorism, natural disaster, and weapons of mass destruction are real. If something were to happen today, you would need to have made a decision about the rifle you would select and be prepared for such an event. So the need to select a ‘survival’ rifle is real. Selecting a single ‘ideal rifle’ is not easy. The AR-15 series of rifles comes out ahead when compared to everything else.” Depending on where you live, it’s perfectly legal to stockpile weapons to use in the event of Armageddon. But that’s a far different argument than the ones firearms advocates have been using since the Newtown shootings.
As I said, I generally think of myself as a Second Amendment supporter, and a month ago, I would’ve probably agreed with the NRA’s position. But the Newtown shooting caused me to re-examine my stance—as is, I think, fitting—and to question some of the rhetoric advocates use to defend weapons like this. In his piece at Human Events, Keene ridiculed the notion that AR-15-style rifles ought to be banned just because“a half dozen [AR-15s] out of more than three million have been misused after illegally falling into the hands of crazed killers.” But the AR-15 is very good at one thing: engaging the enemy at a rapid rate of fire. When someone like Adam Lanza uses it to take out 26 people in a matter of minutes, he’s committing a crime, but he isn’t misusing the rifle. That’s exactly what it was engineered to do.
I would never paint all Muslim's under one brush. That said, it doesn't surprise me either than an extremist Muslim would do this sort of thing.
He probably got a handy J from one of his mates and got all confused about it and lost his marbles.
I'm too angry to really have this conversation now, I think.
I mean intellectually ISIS have done far far worse things than this. They've proven again and again to have no limits at all.
But gay clubs are a sanctuary, a refuge. They always have been in my mind. And to have someone walk into that and just murder everyone. And god the first responders said when they walked in all they could hear was endless ringing mobile phones from their loved ones trying to contact them.
Just **** the idea that my first response shouldn't be anger. That I should be running out to reassure muslims that I don't hate them or judge them for this as if that's the most important pritority, that they don't get their feelings hurt by someone suggesting that maybe their community breeds things like this.
And I'm angry at the suggestion that this guy was obviously gay and a self hater that comes up every goddamned time someone hates us as if it can't possibly be a hetrosexual who hates us, it has to be one of our own hating ourselves.
I'll calm down and be reasonable in the morning, probably.
I have no knowledge of him, his previous positions or how he usually conducts himself - he could be an utter tit that I'd usually disagree with for all I know!
But his co hosts seemed to be perversely refusing to link it in any way to homophobia and that the fact it was an LGBT club was a mere coincidence and tried to talk over him on muliple occasions to make their point. The woman made a comment along the lines of "I'm sure the guy was just as annoyed at gobby women" - speaking as a gobby woman myself I'd kinda assume that if that was his trigger he'd have found a different target.
The man drove almost two hours from his home presumably passing a fair few nightclubs on the way so I don't think it too big a leap to state that homophobia was a large part of the issue that caused him to do this atrocity.
Elong
The fire rises
Nobody should be calm and reasonable at such a horrid act of terrorism mate.
I hadn't quite considered it in from that perspective before, bloody stupid on my part not to now you express it that way but genuinely thanks for the insight.
Sorry if I offended you mate...that certainly wasn't my intention. Some of us have different ways with coping with awful fking news and the state of affairs in the world.
dandydan
Player Valuation: £40m
The blokes called Owen Jones and hasn't does his efforts to be thought of as a serious commentator any favours by storming off in a huff. Russell brand labelled him this generations Orwell.
He writes some ace stuff does Mr Jones. I'm a big fan.
Your type hate him because you're hateful bigots.
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