The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[The Esk]

Or, to put it another way, using personal experience to respond to a pretty cowardly attack made my Milliband.

What was cowardly about asking about Lord Freud's disgraceful remarks?

 

[Mrk]

What was cowardly about asking about Lord Freud's disgraceful remarks?

What exactly is disgraceful about them?

 

[The Esk]

What exactly is disgraceful about them?

Even Lord Freud has had the grace to apologise for his offensive remarks that disabled people "are not worth" the minimum wage and some could only be paid £2 an hour.

“There is a small… there is a group, and I know exactly who you mean, where actually as you say they’re not worth the full wage, and actually I’m going to go and think about that particular issue, whether there is something we can do nationally, and without distorting the whole thing, which actually if someone wants to work for £2 an hour, and it’s working can we actually...”

I trust you are not going to try and defend this statement? If not, will you condemn it?

 

[roydo]

Well, in my view yes. Cowardly because the remarks were taken so out of context it wasnt true. Cowardly because if Milliband was that concerned/offended by the issue, why sit on it for nearly 2 weeks, allowing such an evil man stay in his job?

And cowardly because as someone who has extensive experience, personally and professionally, in seeing how a lot of seriously disabled adults do have issues getting some form of employment, with all the benefits (sic) that has for them, he would rather make a cheap political dig, rather than explore practical ideas that might be outside the box.

And this isnt party political Esk, my disgust would have been the same no matter who played the game this way.

 

[roydo]

Even Lord Freud has had the grace to apologise for his offensive remarks that disabled people "are not worth" the minimum wage and some could only be paid £2 an hour.

“There is a small… there is a group, and I know exactly who you mean, where actually as you say they’re not worth the full wage, and actually I’m going to go and think about that particular issue, whether there is something we can do nationally, and without distorting the whole thing, which actually if someone wants to work for £2 an hour, and it’s working can we actually...”

I trust you are not going to try and defend this statement? If not, will you condemn it?

The bloke has worked in this field for years. Under the last Government as well. There is an issue where some employers cannot take on some disabled people. It is a massive frustration to them and their families. I will happily condemn the phrase he used, but not the context he was musing upon.

 

[Mrk]

Even Lord Freud has had the grace to apologise for his offensive remarks that disabled people "are not worth" the minimum wage and some could only be paid £2 an hour.

“There is a small… there is a group, and I know exactly who you mean, where actually as you say they’re not worth the full wage, and actually I’m going to go and think about that particular issue, whether there is something we can do nationally, and without distorting the whole thing, which actually if someone wants to work for £2 an hour, and it’s working can we actually...”

I trust you are not going to try and defend this statement? If not, will you condem it?

Well, you could start by including the full transcript instead of selecting the one quote which, out of context, sounds daft...

"...You make a really good point about the disabled. Now I had not thought through, and we have not got a system for, you know, kind of going below the Minimum Wage.

"But we do have… You know, Universal Credit is really useful for people with the fluctuating conditions who can do some work - go up and down - because they can earn and get...and get, you know, bolstered through Universal Credit, and they can move that amount up and down.

"Now, there is a small…there is a group, and I know exactly who you mean, where actually as you say they’re not worth the full wage and actually I’m going to go and think about that particular issue, whether there is something we can do nationally, and without distorting the whole thing, which actually if someone wants to work for £2 an hour, and it’s working can we actually…”

In the bold part, he's talking about bolstering disabled peoples wages with Universal Credit.

In the last quote he's saying that some disabled people are not productive enough to be worth minimum wage, which is a fact. We can dance around the issue and pretend to be outraged - but he's just stating a fact. Should we just ignore the issue and let disabled people stay unemployed?

I'm certainly not going to condemn him for stating a fact.

Also, funny that Labour are all over this, only a few years after producing a government paper that suggested that some disabled people should be paid £4 a DAY.

 

[rascal]

Was it cowardly of David Cameron not to refute the claims made by the Daily Fail that Ed Milliband's father hated Britain despite being fully aware of his service to this country, he was presented with the opportunity on a few occasions.

 

[Mrk]

Was it cowardly of David Cameron not to refute the claims made by the Daily Fail that Ed Milliband's father hated Britain despite being fully aware of his service to this country, he was presented with the opportunity on a few occasions.

lol For goodness sake. You're really scraping the barrel now.

 

[toffee matt]

Would be nice if our politicians could focus on the general issues in this country instead of trying to get one over each other all the time.

 

[roydo]

Was it cowardly of David Cameron not to refute the claims made by the Daily Fail that Ed Milliband's father hated Britain despite being fully aware of his service to this country, he was presented with the opportunity on a few occasions.

Thought Ed Milliband did a fine job himself in showing the Fail up for what it is actually. But I cannot recall Cameron attempting to make capital out of the (non) story. And if he did, he was stupid to do so.

 

[rascal]

All his suggestion would do is provide the employer an opportunity to save money for their own gains. It's pretty obvious.

 

[Mrk]

All his suggestion would do is provide the employer an opportunity to save money for their own gains. It's pretty obvious.

It would also give a disabled person the chance to work where they otherwise couldn't.

Presumably you also disagree with tax credits, which boost people's pay artificially and mean companies can get away with paying less than they otherwise would?

Very libertarian of you, I must say.

 

[roydo]

All his suggestion would do is provide the employer an opportunity to save money for their own gains. It's pretty obvious.

No. It wasnt a "suggestion" for one. He KNOWS that a lot of the most serious, mainly physically, disabled people would love to go to work. But there are real problems they face. Mostly well intentioned, such as Health & Safety, and anti-discrimination. And yes, in many cases the cost to an employer. What is wrong in looking at ways to allieviate them? And if one way would be looking at how the minimum wage could be in some way made up between credits and the employer, without breaking rules like the above ones, then what is wrong with that?

 

[rascal]

You're really scraping the barrel now.

It's important to not forget that episode when talkiing of political point scoring.

 

[Mrk]

No. It wasnt a "suggestion" for one. He KNOWS that a lot of the most serious, mainly physically, disabled people would love to go to work. But there are real problems they face. Mostly well intentioned, such as Health & Safety, and anti-discrimination. And yes, in many cases the cost to an employer. What is wrong in looking at ways to allieviate them? And if one way would be looking at how the minimum wage could be in some way made up between credits and the employer, without breaking rules like the above ones, then what is wrong with that?

The problem is, many on the left (and some on the right too) would rather we did nothing apart from giving them a few quid and expect them to shut up and stop complaining.

"What's that, disabled person? You want a job and self-esteem but you can't find employment? - Shush, have another £20 a week in benefits".