The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[Clint Planet]

A great deal. Leading most of the channels.

Strange. It's not like non doms are anywhere near as relevant to the ordinary man as the NHS.

 

[Eggs]

Strange. It's not like non doms are anywhere near as relevant to the ordinary man as the NHS.

.....could be a vote catcher, though.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

To be fair, I think this thread is holding up well and in comparison to the level of political discussion around and within the main parties election efforts to date, actually operates at a higher level.

What was refreshing yesterday was there was actually a coherent argument put forward for not having a referendum on Europe, the principle reasons being (i) firstly it is not necessary, we should be campaigning for change within not in/out,(ii) it would be highly disruptive regardless of the result (iii) the implications of a no result and (iv) an interesting observation that perhaps the general public are not best qualified to make the decision in the first place.

Now what would have been fascinating would have been a policy response from the Conservatives and others countering or agreeing with each of the above points.

Instead we got lazy (by design) journalism focusing on the Blair/Miliband relationship and the response from the PM that Blair was being contemptuous with the electorate.

The franchise operations which are the political parties today do not want in-depth analysis of their policies, they prefer sound bites and negative campaigning. I think this thread has risen above that.

Isn't that largely because the parties, and therefore much of the official political debate, is done via the mainstream media, which is an awful channel for discussing anything sensibly, because, as you say, journalism is a lazy affair these days that is designed to shift papers and grab eyeballs.

To be honest though, that kind of thing is lapped up. I've mentioned the NHS a number of times because it's an area I have an interest in,all and it's scary the amount of disinformation out there during this election. Stevens has made quite clear his plans for the NHS (and he has a lot more influence than any of the politicians these days), and all of the parties signed up to his plan for it.

I'm sure behind closed doors the discussion is much more around how to help support that plan, but in public the debate is terrible, and the level of detail (and scrutiny of it) is minimal to say the least. Yesterday I had a Lib Dem leaflet come through the door saying they'd fund the gap outlined by Stevens of £8bn. Alongside that was a Labour leaflet saying how they'd add 20,000 new nurses. Are they domestically trained nurses, in which case how on earth can he train that many even within the lifetime of the next parliament? If they're from overseas, can it work within immigration targets that UKIP seem to have pressganged all parties into toughening up on? Is the £750m or so in wages for those new nurses part of the £8bn that everyone seems committed to giving to the NHS before the end of the next parliament?

Who knows? I suspect in reality there isn't much difference between any of them, and they're simply trying to package up the same thing in different ways to please the faithful, but that's my own bias I guess. There certainly doesn't appear to be any scrutiny applied to what they're saying by the press.

Quite a nice site to help with that is https://fullfact.org/. I think I mentioned it a while ago (I certainly wrote about it last month but may have neglected to wang it up here). Provides a nice bit of analysis to pretty much every claim made during the election.

 

[davek]

Quite an apt analogy. It is akin to Everton and Liverpool fans discussing the merits of their team. No one is ever willing to admit they're wrong, no one is willing to learn from 'the other side'.

It's a perfect storm of confirmation bias.

The thing about this non-partisan intervention of yours, Bruce, is that it'd carry more weight if wasn't perceptible that you yourself lean to one side.

Myself: I feel the pull of old tribal loyalty to the party I've grown up supporting, and supported all my life, Labour. I'm sucked in to identifying with them still on some level. But I genuinely dont have a dog in this fight. Not after the Scottish referendum and the LPs disgraceful attack on hope and progressive politics. That's not to say I wont enjoy seeing them get on top of a dire Tory Party down here though.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The thing about this non-partisan intervention of yours, Bruce, is that it'd carry more weight if wasn't perceptible that you yourself lean to one side.

Myself: I feel the pull of old tribal loyalty to the party I've grown up supporting, and supported all my life, Labour. I'm sucked in to identifying with them still on some level. But I genuinely dont have a dog in this fight. Not after the Scottish referendum and the LPs disgraceful attack on hope and progressive politics. That's not to say I wont enjoy seeing them get on top of a dire Tory Party down here though.

For sure, I'm probably just as guilty of it as the next man. Even though I try and source from as wide a variety of places as possible, it's quite probable that it's stuff I broadly agree with in the first place.

 

[Milk]

Blair was immense yesterday, you could mash all the leaders out there into one to complete with him and still come up short, you can see how he won 3 on the bounce at a canter when he talks like he does.

He is absolutely right on the EU as they are our major trading partner and Cameron is very foolish to even offer an In/Out referendum but .....


..... Blair is a toe rag only interested in lining his own pockets since standing down and I don't know how anyone who professes to be a Labour supporter can square with the man.

 

[Seanjd]

For sure, I'm probably just as guilty of it as the next man. Even though I try and source from as wide a variety of places as possible, it's quite probable that it's stuff I broadly agree with in the first place.

Hi Bruce. You mentioned a few days ago on here that you will vote for Labour but I didn't have time to pick up on it then. If you don't mind me asking, why will you vote for them over Conservative?

 

[Durham Toffee]

Labour have let my town down for too long. They haven't defended us or supported us or fought for us for years. They are safe in the knowledge that they've had a seat here for 25 years or more and it's about time they were made to feel uncomfortable. Typical miner towns will vote blindly for them though and that rankles with me. Don't vote for someone because that's what your dad did or that's what has always been done here...

The only party that stand a cat in hell's chance of knocking them off their perch here are UKIP. The Tories stand less chance than I do of having an elected official here and there are no other alternatives since the LibDems forgot who they were.

It's sad to say, but I'll be voting for UKIP because they aren't Labour...

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Hi Bruce. You mentioned a few days ago on here that you will vote for Labour but I didn't have time to pick up on it then. If you don't mind me asking, why will you vote for them over Conservative?

Because they look out for the little man, and men don't come much littler than me

 

[Seanjd]

Because they look out for the little man, and men don't come much littler than me

I'd genuinely like to know why seeing as you have an interest in the NHS.

 

[Seanjd]

Labour have let my town down for too long. They haven't defended us or supported us or fought for us for years. They are safe in the knowledge that they've had a seat here for 25 years or more and it's about time they were made to feel uncomfortable. Typical miner towns will vote blindly for them though and that rankles with me. Don't vote for someone because that's what your dad did or that's what has always been done here...

The only party that stand a cat in hell's chance of knocking them off their perch here are UKIP. The Tories stand less chance than I do of having an elected official here and there are no other alternatives since the LibDems forgot who they were.

It's sad to say, but I'll be voting for UKIP because they aren't Labour...

Absolutely nothing to do with their policies?

 

[Durham Toffee]

Absolutely nothing to do with their policies?

It is a little, yes. There are certain aspects of their policies that I am utterly in opposition to, but there are other aspects that I do like and do think need promoting for the greater good. There needs to be some brutal honesty in this country. Labour won't give us that.

I wish I could have faith in a my Labour roots, but they have completely alienated me for years now. They represent me about as well as I represent Sudanese communities.

 

[Seanjd]

It is a little, yes. There are certain aspects of their policies that I am utterly in opposition to, but there are other aspects that I do like and do think need promoting for the greater good. There needs to be some brutal honesty in this country. Labour won't give us that.

I wish I could have faith in a my Labour roots, but they have completely alienated me for years now. They represent me about as well as I represent Sudanese communities.

I'm assuming that you like their immigration/EU policies. Which ones are you utterly in opposition to? I can't recall their others.

 

[The Esk]

Quite a nice site to help with that is https://fullfact.org/. I think I mentioned it a while ago (I certainly wrote about it last month but may have neglected to wang it up here). Provides a nice bit of analysis to pretty much every claim made during the election.

Agree - it's a very useful organisation

 

[Durham Toffee]

I'm assuming that you like their immigration/EU policies. Which ones are you utterly in opposition to? I can't recall their others.

Please don't be facetious with me. I know what you are doing. I've explained my need to knock Labour off their perch. In doing so, they might present real policies in my town and be decisive and have presence. If that means I need to "spoil" my vote by putting UKIP on that card, that's what is necessary.

Right now, UKIP have presented more focus and a voice for our community than Labour have in two decades.

Let's leave it at that.