The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[Eggs]

...few mentions about austerity and government spend. My view is that cyclical governments help provide the balance. The Tory's have come in and looked at areas of waste an adjusted. This is welcome, but they then go beyond that benchmark and continue to cut. They cut and cut to a point where an adjustment is needed. My fear is another Tory campaign will push services beyond the point of no return.

 

[Clint Planet]

I suspect a great many things contributed to what happened and that it's probably overly simplistic to apportion blame to any one thing.

Of course there were many factors but deregulation - a Reaganite / Thatcherite neoliberalist act - is undoubtedly the main one. Have you watched the Elizabeth Warren clip above? The trouble with unfettered capitalism is that it eats its own young.

 

[roydo]

deregulation

Followed 25 years later by lack of regulation didnt help.

But anyrate, I think pinning the blame for the crash on a single party or policy is pointless, cos its wrong. I do not buy the "It was Brown/Balls fault" any more than ot was Thatcher or Regan.

It was a perfect storm, which no one really saw coming in the mainstream. We might disagree on what we have done since, but hopefully, we can agree on that!

 

[Clint Planet]

But anyrate, I think pinning the blame for the crash on a single party or policy is pointless, cos its wrong. I do not buy the "It was Brown/Balls fault" any more than ot was Thatcher or Regan.

I'm not pinning it on a party, I'm pinning it on a system.

It was a perfect storm, which no one really saw coming in the mainstream.

An interesting point. The implication being that there were some outside of the mainstream (or maybe they were just marginalised by those who control the media and call the economic/political shots) who did see it coming.

Ever watched this?:



It's well worth a view, and totally chilling - like the last days of Rome or something. And who's to plausibly contradict any of it?

 

[Seanjd]

Has someone hacked Pete's log-in?

Hahaha. I despair.

 

[Caolam]

Why can't their be an abstain vote, so your vote is counted?

Forgive me if there is, I've never voted.

Because in lots of constituencies abstentions would out or the individual candidates

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Of course there were many factors but deregulation - a Reaganite / Thatcherite neoliberalist act - is undoubtedly the main one. Have you watched the Elizabeth Warren clip above? The trouble with unfettered capitalism is that it eats its own young.

No I haven't I'm afraid, I was watching Kolya this evening with the other half. I'll endeavour to watch it tomorrow though, although it does seem a little odd to suggest the primary cause of a global event is something that happened 25 years before the said event. By it's very nature that would suggest a whole lot of things that happened both in the intervening years and nearer the time were irrelevant, which 'seems' peculiar to me, but I'll try and watch the clip with an open, if uneconomically trained mind.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It was a perfect storm, which no one really saw coming in the mainstream. We might disagree on what we have done since, but hopefully, we can agree on that!

I don't know that anyone wanted to see it coming really. It was a bubble, and there have certainly been plenty of those over the years to advise us on the herd like mentality that emerges within the bubble.

We got rich on a booming property market, the banks got rich by packing up money in new ways, the state gained enormously by both. Heck, to a large extent the state are doing exactly the same now in response to the credit crunch. The whole process of quantitative easing is designed to promote lending, and has primarily boosted the value of assets. It's certainly not shifted productivity.

Ironically, that has merely entrenched inequality by further helping those with assets already to get wealthier. Has there been any politician speaking out against QE? Certainly not from the left, and indeed we only have to look at Greece to see how many are clamouring for more of it and poo poohing the Germans for wanting to spend only what they have.

The very notion of recovering from a crunch caused by excessive lending by promoting cheap credit and deterring people from saving isn't a very good reflection of the economics of today.

 

[peteblue]

Has someone hacked Pete's log-in?

Hahaha, I'm a conservative socialist ............

 

[ThebanksoftheBramleyMoore]

Ever watched this?:



It's well worth a view, and totally chilling - like the last days of Rome or something. And who's to plausibly contradict any of it?

I tend not to trust people who speak with a conviction that they are definitely right and leave no room for doubt or other alternatives and that their way is the only solution. he is sitting in a dark room playing scary music pretending everything he says is a secret.

didn't watch a great deal of it of but in summary from what I got he stated that due to oil running out we must find alternative methods of sustaining life (his specifically). Coining it off as if it's his revolutionary idea, when it just seems more like common knowledge combined with scare mongering.

started skipping big sections and came to my favorite words from him at 53:59

"what I do in the yard where I'm renting, I'm mixing barbequed wood ash and then I go out and pee on everything"

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Of course there were many factors but deregulation - a Reaganite / Thatcherite neoliberalist act - is undoubtedly the main one. Have you watched the Elizabeth Warren clip above? The trouble with unfettered capitalism is that it eats its own young.

Can't disagree with much of what she said, and certainly no company should ever be 'too big to fail'. That's just storing up huge problems further down the track. Ironically, that was actually a Thatcher policy from the 80s (no lame ducks), ie that the state wouldn't prop up companies that couldn't support themselves. It's a pity that we moved away from that as it's important in all aspects of life to learn from our mistakes. It's hard to do that if you don't have any consequences from making them.

 

[The Mighty Quint]

I can't believe the Tories are neck and neck with Labour, just goes to show how good Camoron is at bullshitting.

 

[Clint Planet]

Can't disagree with much of what she said, and certainly no company should ever be 'too big to fail'. That's just storing up huge problems further down the track. Ironically, that was actually a Thatcher policy from the 80s (no lame ducks), ie that the state wouldn't prop up companies that couldn't support themselves. It's a pity that we moved away from that as it's important in all aspects of life to learn from our mistakes. It's hard to do that if you don't have any consequences from making them.

Ha ha ha. Neoliberal to the end! That wasn't the point of what Warren said at all. Nor was it what we were talking about (and you're even conveniently ignoring the fact that Thatcher bailed out Rolls Royce aeroengines when they were about to go bust).

Warren's point is that the bubble which you mentioned - trivialising it, somewhat - in a previous post could easily be avoided by managing the economy responsibly.

 

[Clint Planet]

I tend not to trust people who speak with a conviction that they are definitely right and leave no room for doubt or other alternatives and that their way is the only solution. he is sitting in a dark room playing scary music pretending everything he says is a secret.

didn't watch a great deal of it of but in summary from what I got he stated that due to oil running out we must find alternative methods of sustaining life (his specifically). Coining it off as if it's his revolutionary idea, when it just seems more like common knowledge combined with scare mongering.

started skipping big sections and came to my favorite words from him at 53:59

"what I do in the yard where I'm renting, I'm mixing barbequed wood ash and then I go out and pee on everything"

He doesn't do it any more. He killed himself last year.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Ha ha ha. Neoliberal to the end! That wasn't the point of what Warren said at all. Nor was it what we were talking about (and you're even conveniently ignoring the fact that Thatcher bailed out Rolls Royce aeroengines when they were about to go bust).

Warren's point is that the bubble which you mentioned - trivialising it, somewhat - in a previous post could easily be avoided by managing the economy responsibly.

It's easy to be wise after the fact though isn't it? Few people were saying things were about to go very wrong at the time, just as few people thought the stock market was over-valued pre the dot-com crash.

I mean lets fast forward to the present day, and look at Greece. On these very pages a whole host of people have advocated that they cease acting responsibly and start spending money they don't have as quickly as possible. Instead, people advocate massive printing of cash, thus eroding the value of savings and encouraging people to get out of a debt fueled crisis by borrowing more money. All that has done is re-inflate the housing market.

I'm fully on board with spending only what you have, whether you're a state or an individual, but that isn't exactly the norm, is it?