The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[bring the ghost on]

This TV debate malarkey is hotting up and getting sillier by the day. Whether they are of any use or not we have discussed before, but it's now got to the point where the BBC et al are now telling the Prime Minister that he must turn up at a certain points of time just because they want to broadcast a series of shows. If I were DC I'd tell them all to [Poor language removed]. What would happen if Milliband said he didn't want to do it, would there be two empty chairs ?. Who the fck do these broadcasters think they are......

Equally though, DC has only refused to participate because he thinks the debates will ruin his own chances. Just because he doesn't want to join in, that shouldn't mean that the other parties shouldn't be heard.

I'm glad his attempt as sabotaging the debates has back fired and that they are going ahead without him - the invite is there if he wants to accept it.

 

[Clint Planet]

I'm not suggesting that capitalism is perfect, or at least the form of it practised by most western democracies, merely that the majority of implementations of socialist branded central economies have been awful failures and have done little to give real power or freedom to the citizens of those nations.

I ask again, are you denying that neoliberal capitalist ideology led to the current economic crisis?

The Nordic countries seem to be doing well, and I'm a big fan of the various participatory budgeting projects that are emerging around the world, but those kind of projects that return some power to people don't seem to be what is advocated when we talk of socialism in these discussions.

In spite of your willful insistance that socialism is all about top-down state interference, I think you'll find the vast majority of those on the left are approving of small-scale, bottom-up initiatives as well as appropriate regulation of multinationals.

It seems that a central power is still what is demanded, albeit one that is benevolent (to whatever demands are seemed appropriate). I'm not sure that's really any better than having power centralised in corporate hands.

You have as much faith in Tesco, BP and Coca-Cola to act in the best interests of the populace as you do in democracy itself? Okay, then....

 

[peteblue]

Equally though, DC has only refused to participate because he thinks the debates will ruin his chances. That shouldn't mean that the other parties shouldn't be heard, just because he doesn't want to face them in a debate.

I'm glad his attempt as sabotaging the debates has back fired and that they are going ahead without him - the invite is there if he wants to accept.

Yeah but what if it had been the other way around and DC wanted to do it but EM didn't. Would the BBC be so pushy for it then. It's happened before where one or other politician has declined to do it and the TV people do not have the right to determine how our political process, which has a number of rules, should progress. Personally I think DC would wipe the floor with EM but I do respect that it's his choice....

 

[edge]

wonder what price the BBC will pay if he wins,Bye bye licence fee

 

[bluejock]

Seems to be a fair degree of apathy towards the whole thing. When you look at them, there isn't really one that stands out as a good choice, so people are left trying to pick the best of a bad bunch.

Find a bookie that takes odds on turnout and whack everything you have on a record low.

 

[bring the ghost on]

Yeah but what if it had been the other way around and DC wanted to do it but EM didn't. Would the BBC be so pushy for it then.

Well, it's hypothetical, but in all honesty I think if it was EM who was refusing to take part, the broadcasters would still go ahead without him too. I don't see any evidence that this is an anti-tory stance or a persecution of DC.

Personally I think DC would wipe the floor with EM but I do respect that it's his choice....

It's his choice, but based on the advice of his election campaign managers and strategists, all of whom have told DC in no uncertain terms that he won't come out favourably.

I'm not saying that DC isn't better than EM at debating, but EM has the upper hand because of the record of the coalition. EM has all the ammo and DC will struggle.

Also, it isn't only EM that DC had to worry about. DC and his team know that Nigel Farage is probably the most personable of the lot in a debate and also the most likely to split the tory vote.

Hence, DC has tried to sabotage the debates, but has failed. His new strategy is to try to water then down by only appearing in one.

 

[peteblue]

wonder what price the BBC will pay if he wins,Bye bye licence fee

I would think.....

 

[toffee matt]

wonder what price the BBC will pay if he wins,Bye bye licence fee

From a selfish point of view I wouldn't be against that

 

[Toffeelover]

wonder what price the BBC will pay if he wins,Bye bye licence fee

Well I will tell you what looking at some of the trash and repeats BBC puts on, I would be for chucking the licence fee and tell them to sort themselves out. They might think twice then before handing out big pay cheques to staff and giving celebs fully paid jaunts abroad to make a half hour programme.

 

[Blue 1]

Personally I would like to see Blair brought to court over taking the country to war based on lies........

I would like to see him catch fire.

 

[Jib in lad]

Just to take this back to the deregulation that started with Thatcher and Reagan in the 80s and how it eventually led to the financial crash in 2008 if you have got 5 mins have a look at what Elizabeth Warren says in this video I think she explains it quite well.

 

[Clint Planet]

And, of course, it is the poorest who have paid for the current crisis. The richest 1% are much richer now than in 2008.

 

[peteblue]

And, of course, it is the poorest who have paid for the current crisis. The richest 1% are much richer now than in 2008.

You can sort it out by doing the following
Ensure tax is paid to country of nationality, no exceptions.
Clamp down on tax dodging by corporations and rich individuals with other countries
Share the tax burden fairly, shifting taxation from labour and consumption towards capital and wealth
Introduce a living wage for all workers
Ensure adequate safety-nets for the poorest, including a minimum income guarantee

It would be nice to see.....

 

[Clint Planet]

Has someone hacked Pete's log-in?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I ask again, are you denying that neoliberal capitalist ideology led to the current economic crisis?

I suspect a great many things contributed to what happened and that it's probably overly simplistic to apportion blame to any one thing.

In spite of your willful insistance that socialism is all about top-down state interference, I think you'll find the vast majority of those on the left are approving of small-scale, bottom-up initiatives as well as appropriate regulation of multinationals.

I'm only going on the content posted on here, and to be honest, pretty much all of the bottom up ideas and projects that I've posted about on here have been poo-poohed. That's fine, personal choice and all that, but I can't recall many alternatives that people do approve of shared with the forum. I'd love to hear of any projects you're aware of, and would certainly prefer to hear about those than party political back and forths

You have as much faith in Tesco, BP and Coca-Cola to act in the best interests of the populace as you do in democracy itself? Okay, then....

I'm not sure how that conclusion was arrived at. For the record though, I don't think power is good when it's too concentrated, and that applies to states and corporations. You have to bare in mind that it isn't impossible to act in your own self interest and also that of your community.