Summer Transfer Window 2019

[Stephenlloyd]

@Neiler The moyes era, when we won nothing. He did well to be fair, but at a time when only 2 or 3 clubs were spending money, wasn’t that difficult to finish top 7 in them days. I’m pretty sure the likes of Blackburn, Middlesbrough, Bolton, villa, Ipswich all finished in the top 7 at sometime throughout the noughties.

And I can’t think of many players the clubs you mentioned have bought that are unknown.

I’ve said it for a few years, spurs bought a lot of young players who all came good at a similar time, good management from poch, but add the likes of Ali fir 5mil and hitting the ground running and Kane coming through the ranks is a once in a lifetime. Spurs imo have wasted a lot of money of the last 2 years with out improving the first 11. Will be interesting to see where spurs go from here as they haven’t really improved in 2yrs. Unlike Liverpool, but it’s cost them a lot of money to get to that level.

Maybe we will sign young players, like the spurs model and it could take 3 or 4 years for the team to come good if they ever do. And we will probably go through a few more mangers until we get there.

 

[Simon baker]

11 of those players are the same we have been trying to shift for the past 18 months without success.

What makes anybody think that clubs are going to be queuing up this year to take them?

Has any single one of them had a season to remember?

Has any single one of them made such an impression to their loan clubs that bids will come flying in for them?

Bolassie, Tosun, Sandro and Walcott will not be in any hurry to ditch the mega money they are on here.

The ones that do leave will be sold for nominal fees to get them off our books.

The only hope we have is that as there contracts run down & we amortise any transfer fees the cost to punt them reduces.

Hopefully some of them have some sort professionalism and would rather a 3/4 year deal elsewhere on a reduced wage than 2 years left with us obviously we can support there departure financially which is what I would do.

Spend £20 million cutting the squad

 

[Neiler]

@Neiler The moyes era, when we won nothing. He did well to be fair, but at a time when only 2 or 3 clubs were spending money, wasn’t that difficult to finish top 7 in them days. I’m pretty sure the likes of Blackburn, Middlesbrough, Bolton, villa, Ipswich all finished in the top 7 at sometime throughout the noughties.

And I can’t think of many players the clubs you mentioned have bought that are unknown.

I’ve said it for a few years, spurs bought a lot of young players who all came good at a similar time, good management from poch, but add the likes of Ali fir 5mil and hitting the ground running and Kane coming through the ranks is a once in a lifetime. Spurs imo have wasted a lot of money of the last 2 years with out improving the first 11. Will be interesting to see where spurs go from here as they haven’t really improved in 2yrs. Unlike Liverpool, but it’s cost them a lot of money to get to that level.

Maybe we will sign young players, like the spurs model and it could take 3 or 4 years for the team to come good if they ever do. And we will probably go through a few more mangers until we get there.

During the Moyes era we finished fourth that pretty much considered success still - Pochitno has won nothing, Klopp has won nothing, Sarri has won nothing, Emery has won nothing, Soljkaer nothing, its pretty much just Pep who has won anything. But all have been in the top 4. Moyes success is relative to today's measure of success.

I disagree with you in the sense that i think its relatively still easy to finish in the top seven, if you have the nous, you need to be ahead of Watford, Wolves, Bourmouth, Leicester, WHU and Wolves. Certainly something this club is more then capable of if it has its head screwed on right.

When i say unknown i said unknown and relatively unknown in the PL. Im talking of players like Son, Salah, Firmino, Erikson, Alli, Kante, Mahrez, Vardy, Vidic, Evra, Van Persie, Anelka, Ronaldo, etc etc there are 100s of examples some of those players were unknown and some were relatively unknown within the PL or had a low PL profile. My point being the trick is not what you spend, its the wisdom of the investment. We made huge mistakes of signing players on the way down rather then the way up or players at the very top of their market value that were poor investments.

My general point is its irrelevant what you spend, its relevant as to how wise your investment is and how that investment can be grown. Transfer fees are irrelevant if you do it right. So in essence how much you spend is irrelevant and you dont need it to compete, the wisdom of your investment enables you to compete.

Rom is a good example, there were threads on here saying signing him for 28 mill was obscene, looks pretty clever business now.

Good judgement makes transfer fees irrelevant.

 

[trueblue10]

I kThe eye test didn’t

The only hope we have is that as there contracts run down & we amortise any transfer fees the cost to punt them reduces.

Hopefully some of them have some sort professionalism and would rather a 3/4 year deal elsewhere on a reduced wage than 2 years left with us obviously we can support there departure financially which is what I would do.

Spend £20 million cutting the squad

It seems to me that we keep chucking good money at people to get them off our books.

We have payed off Martinez, Kooman and Sam in the last 3 years.

We have Besic, Miralles, Bolassie, Williams and Niasse out on loan but are still paying them.

We simply cannot continue, as a business, to spend big one season and spew money the next season, getting rid of them.

 

[CRIMHEAD]

Please stop advocating signing Gomes. Not what we need.

 

[CRIMHEAD]

It seems to me that we keep chucking good money at people to get them off our books.

We have payed off Martinez, Kooman and Sam in the last 3 years.

We have Besic, Miralles, Bolassie, Williams and Niasse out on loan but are still paying them.

We simply cannot continue, as a business, to spend big one season and spew money the next season, getting rid of them.

What does firing a coach have to do with selling a player on the cheap?

I don’t believe we are still paying any of those players, at least not much.

Williams is done, his contract is up. Mirallas and Niasse have one more year. We can move Besic. We may have to eat some money but we can move Bolasie.

That has nothing to do with firing a coach.

 

[trueblue10]

What does firing a coach have to do with selling a player on the cheap?

I don’t believe we are still paying any of those players, at least not much.

Williams is done, his contract is up. Mirallas and Niasse have one more year. We can move Besic. We may have to eat some money but we can move Bolasie.

That has nothing to do with firing a coach.

But unless we have a ' fire the coach' kitty, the money we keep having to pay them in severance payments, reduces our spending power on replacing the deadwood players , those managers keep buying.

Also, whilst we continue in our current trend of dismissing managers , 3 in 3 years, we have little chance of being an attractive stable attraction to non journeyman managers and players.

We have been trying to shift Besic for the last 18 months. He had the chance of a perm move to boro in August and turned them down, going on loan instead. This tells me we are paying a % of his wages.

Miralles has had numerous loans but no permanent move, again this tells me we are topping his wages up.

Williams may be done, but we have been paying a % of his money while he is at Stoke, the same with Niasse and Bolassie.

We did the same deal in reverse for Rooney,what makes you think we don't do it?

No successful business can keep on spewing money year after year.

We have all seen Leeds and Villa do it.

I do not want this club to go the same way.

 

[BillLovesRoo]

During the Moyes era we finished fourth that pretty much considered success still - Pochitno has won nothing, Klopp has won nothing, Sarri has won nothing, Emery has won nothing, Soljkaer nothing, its pretty much just Pep who has won anything. But all have been in the top 4. Moyes success is relative to today's measure of success.

I disagree with you in the sense that i think its relatively still easy to finish in the top seven, if you have the nous, you need to be ahead of Watford, Wolves, Bourmouth, Leicester, WHU and Wolves. Certainly something this club is more then capable of if it has its head screwed on right.

When i say unknown i said unknown and relatively unknown in the PL. Im talking of players like Son, Salah, Firmino, Erikson, Alli, Kante, Mahrez, Vardy, Vidic, Evra, Van Persie, Anelka, Ronaldo, etc etc there are 100s of examples some of those players were unknown and some were relatively unknown within the PL or had a low PL profile. My point being the trick is not what you spend, its the wisdom of the investment. We made huge mistakes of signing players on the way down rather then the way up or players at the very top of their market value that were poor investments.

My general point is its irrelevant what you spend, its relevant as to how wise your investment is and how that investment can be grown. Transfer fees are irrelevant if you do it right. So in essence how much you spend is irrelevant and you dont need it to compete, the wisdom of your investment enables you to compete.

Rom is a good example, there were threads on here saying signing him for 28 mill was obscene, looks pretty clever business now.

Good judgement makes transfer fees irrelevant.

I'd argue to say shrewd business in the transfer market can only take you so far.
But being shrewd is the first step

 

[BillLovesRoo]

Please stop advocating signing Gomes. Not what we need.

And Zouma

 

[bicycleheader]

But unless we have a ' fire the coach' kitty, the money we keep having to pay them in severance payments, reduces our spending power on replacing the deadwood players , those managers keep buying.

Also, whilst we continue in our current trend of dismissing managers , 3 in 3 years, we have little chance of being an attractive stable attraction to non journeyman managers and players.

We have been trying to shift Besic for the last 18 months. He had the chance of a perm move to boro in August and turned them down, going on loan instead. This tells me we are paying a % of his wages.

Miralles has had numerous loans but no permanent move, again this tells me we are topping his wages up.

Williams may be done, but we have been paying a % of his money while he is at Stoke, the same with Niasse and Bolassie.

We did the same deal in reverse for Rooney,what makes you think we don't do it?

No successful business can keep on spewing money year after year.

We have all seen Leeds and Villa do it.

I do not want this club to go the same way.

I would really love to know how they are going to handle the summer window.

If they know that Bolasie Schneiderlin Sandro Niasse Miralles and any others are not going to take a paycut to move and nobody is going to pay those level of wages then get the loans out as early as possible with as big a % of the wage covered as possible. It is what it is. If we have to run down their contracts it's the best way to do it.

I wonder is there much precedent for paying out a contract to clear out a clogged up squad. We definitely aren't the first club to hit this problem, and as you say throwing more cash around isn't the way to safely get out of it.

 

[Neiler]

I'd argue to say shrewd business in the transfer market can only take you so far.
But being shrewd is the first step

Thats a reasonable view point and maybe i am being idealistic and naive, can anyone compete with City for example? Are they about to get their cumuppence with Uefa? Its not my belief personally that it is impossible, but i'm open minded in the debate.

I think its about incremental steps as a club, take Spurs they incrementally, made wise investments to get the CL, Alli, Son, Vertongan, Eriksen, Alderweild etc to get to a foundation now where they can grow the club to challenge for the title, all the while investing to continue to grow and future proof and consolidate their growth - with the new ground etc. I use Spurs as an example because five years ago we were doing what they are doing now and finishing ahead of them almost every season.

Similarly Chelsea took a different pathway, they injected funds to get to the CL, but have been self sustaining for a long time now, based on their transfer investment via the loan market. They have titles and European trophies and domestic cups.

Utd and Arsenals most successful years were built with a combination of academy players and wise signing, its only since they have invested big in "big names" they have regressed.

Leicester came from no where, absolutely no where to win the title and compete in the CL, clever signings/wise investments and gelled with an existing core of stalwarts within a really apt game plan, it was the ultimate smash and grab.

We dont exist in isolation, there is loads in the above models of "getting there" we can learn and garner, but ultimately the one thing rings true, its not about what you spend its the wisdom of how you invest that leads to success. It actually creates transfer funds to grow again (Gareth Bale for example) as change is the ultimate constant in football, it allows you to future proof the club and consolidate your position to grow the club - new grounds etc.

That my belief anyhow.

 

[trueblue10]

I would really love to know how they are going to handle the summer window.

If they know that Bolasie Schneiderlin Sandro Niasse Miralles and any others are not going to take a paycut to move and nobody is going to pay those level of wages then get the loans out as early as possible with as big a % of the wage covered as possible. It is what it is. If we have to run down their contracts it's the best way to do it.

I wonder is there much precedent for paying out a contract to clear out a clogged up squad. We definitely aren't the first club to hit this problem, and as you say throwing more cash around isn't the way to safely get out of it.

I remember Chelsea having a similar problem with Winston Bogarde, didnt play a single premier league game in his last 3 seasons with them, was quite happy to sit in the reserves and pick up his enormous wedge every month.

I agree with getting them out on loan with % of their wage being payed.

At least if they are playing somewhere they will be in the shop window.

 

[Yarrgh]

I would really love to know how they are going to handle the summer window.

If they know that Bolasie Schneiderlin Sandro Niasse Miralles and any others are not going to take a paycut to move and nobody is going to pay those level of wages then get the loans out as early as possible with as big a % of the wage covered as possible. It is what it is. If we have to run down their contracts it's the best way to do it.

I wonder is there much precedent for paying out a contract to clear out a clogged up squad. We definitely aren't the first club to hit this problem, and as you say throwing more cash around isn't the way to safely get out of it.

I hope that this common sense is not absent from the mind of Brands. But you never know... I think he will be planning for their moving on asap. But the problem lies with destination clubs dragging their feet to save money also.

 

[d34noj]

Please stop advocating signing Gomes. Not what we need.

And if we are punting Schneiderlin, and Gueye buggers off?

 

[Simon baker]

It seems to me that we keep chucking good money at people to get them off our books.

We have payed off Martinez, Kooman and Sam in the last 3 years.

We have Besic, Miralles, Bolassie, Williams and Niasse out on loan but are still paying them.

We simply cannot continue, as a business, to spend big one season and spew money the next season, getting rid of them.

Agreed but having so many bad smells around has to be a contrubtory factor to the lack of fight. We need a squad whereby the only players in it are contributing & the rest are moved on sounds easy