Success?

[Ihaters]

6/10 ain't bad.

Nope it simply means the chances of getting it are very slim.. 6 in a thousand in fact on a level playing field, but when 5 of those are United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and Manchester City and the other paid 15mil in cup bonuses and went bust because of their spending... Kind of shows money makes the field somewhat less level.
I think it kind of covers how hard it is to win without significant spending... in that no one has actually done it.

 

[Ihaters]

When the club itself gave up on potential success in just accepting our European ban without so much as a whimper then failed to capitalise on being one of the 'big 5' who helped set up the premier league in the first place. That evetually transcends to the fans over time and we get to the mindset we are now where anything but relegation battles and an odd cup run will do.

Can't accept that.
A push for Europe, a chance for a cup, and most importantly squad improvement and playing progress.. This what is acceptable to the more realistic fans. Avoiding relegation hasn't come into it for the best part of a decade.

 

[WA Toffee]

I still think of 2nd as a failiure as do many other everton fans.

Really? You see our history as 120+ years of failure?

 

[TX Bill]

I started following Everton in '98 so anything above 5th for me is just gravy.

(KU huh? Didn't know that. Always a threat to win it every year in basketball)

 

[throughthewindandthedrain]

Hear me out. I'm not about to tell you it's better not winning things. What I am going to say is a little on the philosophical side though.

So this is coming from my own experience as a life long fan of a college basketball team called the University of Kansas Jayhawks (it's a civil war term - look it up). Anyway, KU (the abbreviation) is one of the most storied programs in the history of the sport. 2nd in all time wins, basically near the top in every measurement both statistically and just from being a fan of the sport. They are expected to compete for the national championship pretty much every year - and they do.

Here's where it gets tricky. When they don't win the title, it's pure disappointment. It's heartbreak. I don't care how many games they won during the year, how many great games they played, it's depressing (the nature of a single elimination tournament to determine the champion is part of that). But basically it's title or disappointment and there's just no getting around it when you're at that level.

So here's my point/question. Being an Evertonian, do we have more things to be potentially grateful for at this point in the club's history? Again, NOT suggesting I don't want to be league/European champions - I do, desperately. But would we appreciate it more than say Man U or Barca or Real Madrid? Man City's expectations have gotten to the point where 2nd in the league and out of the Champions League is considered a failure. I understand that thinking from my other sporting interests, but it's a little sad don't you think?

I mean if we finished 4th, we'd be giving each other reach arounds all day long. 2nd? The Romans wouldn't have had nothing on us.

Is there any harm to taking pleasure from smaller victories and joys?

Discuss.

only worrying thing about the post is the 'hear me out' which implies its a scary thing to write a post about your love of the game and the club despite whatever befalls them. everything you have said reflects what a massive amount of true Evertonians feel who have been supporting through thick and thin for years. when I was witness to our only period of sustained trophy winning in the mid eighties it felt like even more of a joy because as a kid I was raised to think I would probably never see it. When it happened it happened against the odds with the right group of players and a great balance and spirit coming together for a number of reasons that were impossible to emulate. Some people thought there was a blueprint for success at the time and that if anything meant our spirit and style plummeted in the nineties. If we just want trophies and titles then we could get them by dropping down a couple of divisions. winners are teams and players who do it with dignity, style and spirit. too many teams get a period of five, ten years or more without any of that. The reason I grew to hate Liverpool was their pass the ball back spoilers attitude and the arrogance and lack of dignity a huge chunk of their supporters displayed. I remember thinking how it would have been much more fun to be a Forest fan spoiling their party against the odds. Right at the moment we are a good example of how spirit, style and some integrity can bring stability and some success. To bring in more then maybe we should stop this idea that we are entitled to it. Success to a large number of clubs now is just how many t shirts they sell, success can be what Spain and Barca have achieved. If we get money lets make sure the heart of the club is there for years and not buy a title to please a few people who want to brag they are part of a European elite for six months.

 

[D410]

Just a question, but has anyone thought what the expectations really are from the owners perspective? I mean does,nt the owners expecations set the tone for the club and flows down through the club organization from the money side to the players on the pitch.

I mean we can all have expectations about how the club should perform but it makes not a lick of difference if the owner has his own priorities supported by a budget to match.

Should the owner not come out every season and set those expecations and share that with the manager, players and fans.

 

[McBain]

All my teams were Boss in the 80's.

Seriously, If none of them have still won anything by 2020 I'm out.

I'm going to support whoever wins, and just be happy with the rest of my days.

 

[The Hibbert Agenda]

only worrying thing about the post is the 'hear me out' which implies its a scary thing to write a post about your love of the game and the club despite whatever befalls them. everything you have said reflects what a massive amount of true Evertonians feel who have been supporting through thick and thin for years. when I was witness to our only period of sustained trophy winning in the mid eighties it felt like even more of a joy because as a kid I was raised to think I would probably never see it. When it happened it happened against the odds with the right group of players and a great balance and spirit coming together for a number of reasons that were impossible to emulate. Some people thought there was a blueprint for success at the time and that if anything meant our spirit and style plummeted in the nineties. If we just want trophies and titles then we could get them by dropping down a couple of divisions. winners are teams and players who do it with dignity, style and spirit. too many teams get a period of five, ten years or more without any of that. The reason I grew to hate Liverpool was their pass the ball back spoilers attitude and the arrogance and lack of dignity a huge chunk of their supporters displayed. I remember thinking how it would have been much more fun to be a Forest fan spoiling their party against the odds. Right at the moment we are a good example of how spirit, style and some integrity can bring stability and some success. To bring in more then maybe we should stop this idea that we are entitled to it. Success to a large number of clubs now is just how many t shirts they sell, success can be what Spain and Barca have achieved. If we get money lets make sure the heart of the club is there for years and not buy a title to please a few people who want to brag they are part of a European elite for six months.

I would thumb you till you limped if i could

I simply don't understand fans who won't accept anything but 1st? It really baffles me?
Just because we touched base several times and had periods in our history where we were the best these fans scoff and patronize others who revel in what is still worth celebrating.
I remember some people who mocked Bradford's fans for singing at the final vs Swansea "look at those sad souls, cheering as their team loses- sad deluded souls- THEYR'E NOT COMING FIRST"
Success is relative, and while there is near to nothing on earth I would love more than to see Everton lifting the league trophy (I genuinely struggle to think of many things that will make me happier) I will not trivialize the fantastic achievements of our club, manager and players in relation to the present reality we find ourselves in.
Beat the champions in a league game- I'll cheer and I won't feel I'm settling for less
Qualify for Europe (even little old Europa)- I'll celebrate like crazy and not feel any worse for it
Each club has its individual trajectory its on and this determines what is constituted as a success. If you deviate in the short term downwards, you can act aggrieved and entitled (as Man City fans feel now). But given enough time it normalizes, and you change your expectations to your present realities (What Leeds or Forest fans would give for promotions now- and for many who've seen their great successes the celebrations of doing so will feel equivalent).

Sorry for rambling.
Bring back Lars Jacobson.

 

[throughthewindandthedrain]

I remember some people who mocked Bradford's fans for singing at the final vs Swansea "look at those sad souls, cheering as their team loses- sad deluded souls- THEYR'E NOT COMING FIRST"
.

exactly.. hate it when hear fans chanting at teams with little cash or support that they will win 'f.. all' The thing about winning the league that it wasn't even winning it that sticks in the memory its moments along the way..Sharps goal at Anfield, Celtic fans at goodison after we beat Man U 5 0 telling us we were nearest thing to Brazil. I think these times were all to do with where we had come from, maybe how young I was...much more than what we were about to achieve. If someone who has only been watching Blues for last few years got same pleasure watching Pienaars equaliser at Old Trafford then you would have to a bit mean to tell them its worth nothing

 

[steken1]

You've got to take your victories wherever they come these days. If you can do it without losing sight of the bigger picture (that in all sports you play to win) you won't go far wrong.

I want our manager to leave as he's not a winner and we have two or three chances every season of winning something.

You also have to accept that your life may well be ruined in the process of finding a minute or a day of pure joy.

I don't see finishing second a victory or success. I would still view it as an achievement. I weren't really around for the 80's either.

 

[Walken]

Silverware or Europe right now, I would deem a success.

But if the opportunity came along to win something, which it has, then there is no shame in losing to a risk, go for it, just once! Its this attitude of being so petrified of getting over the line that is so hard to take in the moyes era

 

[throughthewindandthedrain]

The man I think had more to do with the success in the 80s than anything was Peter Reid cos he got got good players playing with freedom and commitment. when it wasn't working for the same player though, a large number of people turned on him. He probably shouldn't have been still getting picked but not his fault and at that point I don't think the players or manager were doing much wrong except that they weren't the 84-87 team, if anything they could be more stylish at points. Moyes has been too cautious at times, but I want to believe that if we do go for it at Arsenal and get turned over despite every player putting everything in, then the supporters won't turn on them. after all six 5 0 thrashings and six 2 1 wins instead of six draws and we are higher up the league

 

[Walken]

The man I think had more to do with the success in the 80s than anything was Peter Reid cos he got got good players playing with freedom and commitment. when it wasn't working for the same player though, a large number of people turned on him. He probably shouldn't have been still getting picked but not his fault and at that point I don't think the players or manager were doing much wrong except that they weren't the 84-87 team, if anything they could be more stylish at points. Moyes has been too cautious at times, but I want to believe that if we do go for it at Arsenal and get turned over despite every player putting everything in, then the supporters won't turn on them. after all six 5 0 thrashings and six 2 1 wins instead of six draws and we are higher up the league

Yeah I'm not advocating 6 upfront or anything, there's a difference between controlled aggression and recklessness

 

[throughthewindandthedrain]

Yeah I'm not advocating 6 upfront or anything, there's a difference between controlled aggression and recklessness

definitely feel Moyes cant distinguish the two at times. Players seem to have been in there in lots of games just to give the impression of control rather than provide it, maybe there is no one in the squad who can get them playing when its needed and disciplined when that is, but no point pretending a player is doing it just because he lacks skill

 

[njligernj]

You don't speak for every fan.

I'm azz now?

I don't like it when you two argue ... it's like mummy and daddy arguing ... plus I'm not sure which is which and that's extra confusing.

All my teams were Boss in the 80's. Seriously, If none of them have still won anything by 2020 I'm out. I'm going to support whoever wins, and just be happy with the rest of my days.

I support the teams I support no matter what BUT I do find my interest in certain teams rises and falls based on how they are doing (which is natural I suppose). The Bucs in the NFL for instance I am at a low right now because the owners obviously don't care about the team and refuse to spend money.

However Everton, no matter what, remains on top and I just can't shake it. Even though they are perhaps the least likely team I follow to win anything. It's just not possible to not care about Everton the most no matter how far I move away, how little the chairman can help us, how annoyed I might get with the Prem glass ceiling etc. Everton is by far the least logical thing in my life by a long-shot ... but what are you going to do? No choice ... just carry on.