Stadium Thread - ALL Kirkby/Stadium Discussion Here

[Dylan]

Why, if a new regime came in, would they proceed with it? Logistical nightmare, costs rising to a point where the club have to pledge their future earnings to make it happen, opposed by 41% of it's season ticket holders last August which probably means more like 60-70% opposition now....why on earth would a new owner pursue this madness? The only reason this lot are pursuing it is because the true owner of the club, Philip Green, fancies getting his nose in the trough of a retail development and forcing up the price of his own club shares in any future sell off. I'm sure now with the planning mess even he will be looking to jettison his shares when this thing comes officialy crashing down.

Hearsay. Unless you provide actual facts showing this stop.

This debate is getting silly now. People are still going over the same arguments just in different ways. I am getting really bored with both sides constantly going at it. Both sides provide info the contradict the others claims.

None of us really have access to all the info, so at best you are providing your opinion.

So lets keep it to what it is. Opinion. Lets stop speaking for other people or making your own numbers up.

Also, no more slandering of people (I am specifically thinking of Bradley, Wyness and Kenwright ie no more immature name calling) on this site. There are plenty of other sites willing to go down that road, so keep it on theirs.

 

[gordonjblair]

While I wholeheartedly agree with you Danny (about the re-balloting, shouldn't be done), I'm still amused that they even let the fans have a say.

Could not have been done in a worse possible way.

1) Pick your spot.
2) Build stadium.
3) Deal with the few naysayers after the fact.

What a can of worms.

there are 2 schools of thought... firstly Bill remembered that the 3rd word in our name is Club, and decided to behave appropriately;
alternatively, he knew how contentious it would be, and wanted to be able to point to a majority of fans wanting to go (a la Kings Dock, just not quite so clear cut). Personally, I reckon it was a combination of the 2.

Danny, Dylan mentioned something about name calling.. now I'm not exactly a fan of KEIOC, and yes, I do believe that they have occasionally conducted themselves in a naive manner. However, they are fellow Blues who believe passionately enough about the Club to volunteer their time to protect it's best interests as they see them. In the interest of this new more grown up debate, perhaps it would be best if the Admin carrying the name of the Forum refrained from calling this growing section of the fanbase 'idiots'.

 

[davek]

Do you have the links to these polls, i would just like to have a look

Here's one (there have been others on Kipper that have now been deleted with similar results)
ToffeeWeb Poll

Based on the information about the Kirkby Project currently at your disposal, if you could vote in a second ballot on the proposed move would you be for or against moving to Kirkby?


I was for and would still vote yes
26%


I was for but now would vote no
22%


I was against and still am
50%


I was against but now am for
2%


Total Votes Cast: 1041

Link top right of this page: http://www.toffeeweb.com/

 

[GrandOldTeam]

there are 2 schools of thought... firstly Bill remembered that the 3rd word in our name is Club, and decided to behave appropriately;
alternatively, he knew how contentious it would be, and wanted to be able to point to a majority of fans wanting to go (a la Kings Dock, just not quite so clear cut). Personally, I reckon it was a combination of the 2.

Danny, Dylan mentioned something about name calling.. now I'm not exactly a fan of KEIOC, and yes, I do believe that they have occasionally conducted themselves in a naive manner. However, they are fellow Blues who believe passionately enough about the Club to volunteer their time to protect it's best interests as they see them. In the interest of this new more grown up debate, perhaps it would be best if the Admin carrying the name of the Forum refrained from calling this growing section of the fanbase 'idiots'.

Sorry Gordon, you call it 'naive manner', I was just more frank by calling them idiots.

I am not calling fans opposed to Kirkby idiots, Its KEIOC who really bug me. Lost all respect when they depicted Evertonians as hooligans to Kirkby residents.

The fans voted in favour of the move. KEIOC should have gave up then.

 

[davek]

Hearsay. Unless you provide actual facts showing this stop.

Hearsay? That costs are going up, even though we've been informed by the club it will now saddle the club with a large debt when it was stated in August the beauty of the move is that it will leave the club relatively free of debt? No, that's fact. That the transport plan is of massive concern even to the people planning this move, Steer Davies Gleave? No, that's a fact also.

None of us really have access to all the info, so at best you are providing your opinion.

So lets keep it to what it is. Opinion. Lets stop speaking for other people or making your own numbers up.

Opinion? Yes that's right some of the stadium debate is opinion...has that ever really been challenged? It is ok to have an opinion on the issue though isn't it?

Also, no more slandering of people (I am specifically thinking of Bradley, Wyness and Kenwright ie no more immature name calling) on this site. There are plenty of other sites willing to go down that road, so keep it on theirs.

Slandering people? Immature name calling? I'm assuming you're speaking in general now rather than referring to me...if not, feel free to point me in the direction of my misdemeanours on that score.

 

[davek]

Sorry Gordon, you call it 'naive manner', I was just more frank by calling them idiots.

I am not calling fans opposed to Kirkby idiots, Its KEIOC who really bug me. Lost all respect when they depicted Evertonians as hooligans to Kirkby residents.

The fans voted in favour of the move. KEIOC should have gave up then.

The old Valleygate scandal eh? Bit lame that mate. Anything else more relevant and topical from after the Sttone Age?

Keioc are putting heart and soul into what they believe to be the best way forward for EFC. Dont like what they say? Ignore them. Doubt their professionalism in this stadium debate - the way they've weedled out info none of us would have ever seen and present it in an effective manner? - I'm afraid that makes you look idiotic.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

The old Valleygate scandal eh? Bit lame that mate. Anything else more relevant and topical from after the Sttone Age?

What?

So because it was a while ago (less than a year), it can not be used against KEIOC?

Also, any idea why they removed their apology from their website? (below?)

Unfortunately I made grave error of judgement. During the past few months I have been approached by local residents opposed to the stadium development who viewed their concerns that this kind of development would have a detrimental effect on the local community. Often citing anti social behaviour and football related violence. Personally, I was of the opinion that it would assist local residents make a balanced judgement because to make a considered decision you need to look at the negatives as well as the positives.

It was never my intention to besmirch the good name of Everton Football club or the residents of Kirkby, and apologise unreservedly to anybody who may have taken offence to any comments I may have made yesterday

I deplore all forms of violence and do my utmost to promote Everton Football Club Evertonians, and no matter where I travel whether it be at home or abroad. I will continue to campaign for Everton Football club to be open & transparent and include all match-going Evertonians in the ballot process.

Perhaps now with the benefit of hindsight my approach in the future will be more considered.

I believe in being responsible for my own actions and I am willing to tender my resignation at our next committee meeting.

Yours sincerely

Alfie Hincks

If they manipulate their news to reflect well, (so brushing this under the carpet), its hard to believe their recent survey.

 

[Nebbiolo]

There are a few people on either side of the debate that are behaving "idiotically". Thankfully, no-one on this forum has been that way inclined. I think KEIOC has, sometimes, been a bit over the top. Similarly, Bully has been taking the concept of hyperbole to new levels. I personally share a lot of KEIOC concerns. Chiefly, I worry about leaving the city boundaries. In saying that, Kirkby is about as "scouse" as it gets, has a Liverpool postcode and is a hop and skip from Walton (at least by car) Effectively I'm a KEIOC man (although not affiliated to the group) that would get fully behind Kirkby if it happens. And to be honest, I think most of those concerned about the move will also bite the bullet and support it, assuming it reaches the point of no return.

 

[davek]

What?

So because it was a while ago (less than a year), it can not be used against KEIOC?

Also, any idea why they removed their apology from their website? (below?)

If they manipulate their news to reflect well, (so brushing this under the carpet), its hard to believe their recent survey.

Well what does it tell you about the group itself if a spokesman was willing to resign over that incident? It tells me that it isn't the viewpoint of the group itself.

Can you honestly say that you believe that Keioc are not professional in their conduct and well sourced and present their findings in a polished manner. You can't portray these people (of whom I'm not one by the way) as either knuckledraggers or unrepresentative of the views of thousands of fellow Evertonians. You'd be well wide of the mark on both counts.

 

[coyney]

There are a few people on either side of the debate that are behaving "idiotically". Thankfully, no-one on this forum has been that way inclined. I think KEIOC has, sometimes, been a bit over the top. Similarly, Bully has been taking the concept of hyperbole to new levels. I personally share a lot of KEIOC concerns. Chiefly, I worry about leaving the city boundaries. In saying that, Kirkby is about as "scouse" as it gets, has a Liverpool postcode and is a hop and skip from Walton (at least by car) Effectively I'm a KEIOC man (although not affiliated to the group) that would get fully behind Kirkby if it happens. And to be honest, I think most of those concerned about the move will also bite the bullet and support it, assuming it reaches the point of no return.

I agree mate my main concerns are getting a mountain of debt for a crap stadium we had little input in the design if we where talking about a first class stadium I would find the move a lot easier but whispers that wont go away are that with Tesco downsizing retail park we have to stump up more cash than we can manage Kings Dock style and no I have no source just the usual hints.

 

[MoyesBlueWhiteArmy]

Well what does it tell you about the group itself if a spokesman was willing to resign over that incident? It tells me that it isn't the viewpoint of the group itself.

Can you honestly say that you believe that Keioc are not professional in their conduct and well sourced and present their findings in a polished manner. You can't portray these people (of whom I'm not one by the way) as either knuckledraggers or unrepresentative of the views of thousands of fellow Evertonians. You'd be well wide of the mark on both counts.

He actually said he didnt resign over that incident, but we all know they were all behind it and alfie was the sacrifical lamb.
Keioc, professional? Exactly how are they professional? Were still waiting for the fabled HOK report to appear, and as for the representing the views of 1000s, who says? They have had numerous chances to have there voices heard and thanks to that idiot kelly they keep [Poor language removed] up and thats not to mention the masses (about 20-40) who turn up to there protests outside GP!!

 

[Dylan]

Hearsay? That costs are going up, even though we've been informed by the club it will now saddle the club with a large debt when it was stated in August the beauty of the move is that it will leave the club relatively free of debt? No, that's fact. That the transport plan is of massive concern even to the people planning this move, Steer Davies Gleave? No, that's a fact also.

I was actually referring to you making up the 60-70% numbers

Opinion? Yes that's right some of the stadium debate is opinion...has that ever really been challenged? It is ok to have an opinion on the issue though isn't it?

Absolutely, and I encourage that. I long decided to stay out of the stadium debate so if needed I can moderate from a 'less' biased perspective.

Slandering people? Immature name calling? I'm assuming you're speaking in general now rather than referring to me...if not, feel free to point me in the direction of my misdemeanours on that score.

No, not directed at you at all. I was aiming that at the people who say crap like 'he is a [Poor language removed] fat [Poor language removed] etc etc'. I want that to stop.

The thing is, the stadium issue is very touchy and while it is pleasing there are fans who are that passionate to argue their point until they are blue in the face, there is also the negative side of that as it makes them look like they will not back down or consider alternatives (ie the "My opinion is fact and correct and the only one that matters").

 

[davek]

I was actually referring to you making up the 60-70% numbers





Absolutely, and I encourage that. I long decided to stay out of the stadium debate so if needed I can moderate from a 'less' biased perspective.



No, not directed at you at all. I was aiming that at the people who say crap like 'he is a [Poor language removed] fat [Poor language removed] etc etc'. I want that to stop.

The thing is, the stadium issue is very touchy and while it is pleasing there are fans who are that passionate to argue their point until they are blue in the face, there is also the negative side of that as it makes them look like they will not back down or consider alternatives (ie the "My opinion is fact and correct and the only one that matters").

Fair enough, mate. I understand your position. By the way, the 60-70%: I did preface that with the word 'probably' (based on polls like the one carried out by surveygalaxy.com and the current TW poll).

 

[MoyesBlueWhiteArmy]

Fair enough, mate. I understand your position. By the way, the 60-70%: I did preface that with the word 'probably' (based on polls like the one carried out by surveygalaxy.com and the current TW poll).

Survey galaxy, the poll run by keioc and the TW poll, a site which is so anti Everton it almost makes a redshite site look positive towards us! Yeh there great barometers of the general everton public

 

[Blue Lou]

Either way, it's all coming to a head and we will know the outcome in the next few weeks..