Stadium Enquiry - Daily report

[Robert Jarvis]

Dave I am not that happy about Kirkby either. But rather than just pulling your [Poor language removed] frown as I have said before what else have we got that the club can manage.

You have yet to come up with a realistic, affordable alternative and dno't harp on about the loop. As for KEIOC apparently they have identified something like 50 odd possible sites but have they identified where the money will come from and have you??

 

[davek]

Dave I am not that happy about Kirkby either. But rather than just pulling your [Poor language removed] frown as I have said before what else have we got that the club can manage.

You have yet to come up with a realistic, affordable alternative and dno't harp on about the loop. As for KEIOC apparently they have identified something like 50 odd possible sites but have they identified where the money will come from and have you??

I've said 'till I'm blue in the face, Kirkby isn't 'realistic' at the moment, the funds dont exist as things stand. The club are on a promise with what will be roughly a third of the potential costs, the rest they simply have not got.

As for 'costed and deliverable alternatives' (the club's mantra at the moment), that can only be sorted out when they pursue alternatives actively - something they ackowledge they will not do whilst Destination Kirkby still has to be determined. The sites in the shape of the Loop and Goodison Park definitely exist, not my opinion - the opinion of world class stadium designers and the City Council.

 

[Nebbiolo]

Dave I am not that happy about Kirkby either. But rather than just pulling your [Poor language removed] frown as I have said before what else have we got that the club can manage.

You have yet to come up with a realistic, affordable alternative and dno't harp on about the loop. As for KEIOC apparently they have identified something like 50 odd possible sites but have they identified where the money will come from and have you??

Surely refurbishing Goodison is an option, Rob? If we can "discover" the £80m that the club admits Kirkby will cost, we can find something similar to invest in our spiritual home.

Okay, now part of the funding for Kirkby is supposedly coming from the sale of GP. So that is £Xm less to play with. But we can still flog the old training ground and eventually give naming rights at a new and improved Goodison.

Or maybe I'm dangerously deluded on the practicalities of it all, and the reason that Kirkby might happen is that it is all part of a scheme to flog the club at the earliest opportunity.

Anyone know what sort of figures we would be talking about for a decent refurbishment?

Surely it can't be much more than, say, £100m? That amount of money spent would get the ground up to a reasonable standard, and perhaps more could be spent as when the money is there (it's not like we need to expand above 40k is it?).

 

[davek]

Surely refurbishing Goodison is an option, Rob? If we can "discover" the £80m that the club admits Kirkby will cost, we can find something similar to invest in our spiritual home.

Okay, now part of the funding for Kirkby is supposedly coming from the sale of GP. So that is £Xm less to play with. But we can still flog the old training ground and eventually give naming rights at a new and improved Goodison.

Or maybe I'm dangerously deluded on the practicalities of it all, and the reason that Kirkby might happen is that it is all part of a scheme to flog the club at the earliest opportunity.

Anyone know what sort of figures we would be talking about for a decent refurbishment?

Surely it can't be much more than, say, £100m? That amount of money spent would get the ground up to a reasonable standard, and perhaps more could be spent as when the money is there (it's not like we need to expand above 40k is it?).

Elstone said at the recent EGM - and this was reported on the OS - that it would cost £220M to reconfigure GP. How did he get that figure? No one knows - he wont divulge 'sensitive business' details. He may as well have said £2 trillion.

 

[Sharpys top lip]

Dave, you seem to know an awful lot about nothing!

 

[Robert Jarvis]

I honestly do not think redoing GP is an option. It is landlocked and no prospect of buying up houses, school or church to give the club that space it needs. Add to that because of the old state of the ground it would all have to come down to ground level for foundations to be redone not all at once of course. Cannot see it.

And how would a refurbishment within the existing dimensions increase our capacity and what of all those pillars, there is a difference between refurbishment and rebuild.

 

[Nebbiolo]

Elstone said at the recent EGM - and this was reported on the OS - that it would cost £220M to reconfigure GP. How did he get that figure? No one knows - he wont divulge 'sensitive business' details. He may as well have said £2 trillion.

I can hazard a guess where he got the figure, Dave. The club has briefly had a refurbishment quote. No doubt, with Kirkby being the preferred choice, little or no effort was put into ensuring anything was prioritised. They would have asked about increasing capacity (not necessary) and every other bell and whistle they could think of. FFS, you could build a new stadium for £220m, and get some change.

I'm of the opinion that we could do a lot of good work with half the amount Elstone quotes. I just do not trust the club on anything to do with this subject.

 

[kenada_blue]

I honestly do not think redoing GP is an option. It is landlocked and no prospect of buying up houses, school or church to give the club that space it needs. Add to that because of the old state of the ground it would all have to come down to ground level for foundations to be redone not all at once of course. Cannot see it.

And how would a refurbishment within the existing dimensions increase our capacity and what of all those pillars, there is a difference between refurbishment and rebuild.

I wouldnt be surprised if that were true. Refurbishing GP to look modern and facilitate it well to bring it up to date minus anything in increasing the capacity (well, we wouldnt be able to fill it anyway) might cost the same as building a brand new stadium with the deal we have now, with a increased capacity.

You never know, if the enquiry knocks it on the head, I think that's what they'll do.

 

[davek]

Dave, you seem to know an awful lot about nothing!

Sharpy - from you that is an insult.

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

Dave I am not that happy about Kirkby either. But rather than just pulling your [Poor language removed] frown as I have said before what else have we got that the club can manage.

You have yet to come up with a realistic, affordable alternative and dno't harp on about the loop. As for KEIOC apparently they have identified something like 50 odd possible sites but have they identified where the money will come from and have you??

it's not the job of the supporters to run the business, that's down to the board. if the current board can't do an adequate job perhaps they should relinquish control of the club to somebody else who thinks they can do better.

it's a poor state of affairs when the most common argument in support of moving to kirkby seems to be along the lines of "we've got no choice, it's the best we can do" - surely that only underlines what a poor option this proposal is.

 

[Nebbiolo]

I wouldnt be surprised if that were true. Refurbishing GP to look modern and facilitate it well to bring it up to date minus anything in increasing the capacity (well, we wouldnt be able to fill it anyway) might cost the same as building a brand new stadium with the deal we have now, with a increased capacity.

You never know, if the enquiry knocks it on the head, I think that's what they'll do.

Just for argument's sake, imagine we could refurbish GP for the same as Kirkby. Which would you go for?

 

[davek]

I can hazard a guess where he got the figure, Dave. The club has briefly had a refurbishment quote. No doubt, with Kirkby being the preferred choice, little or no effort was put into ensuring anything was prioritised. They would have asked about increasing capacity (not necessary) and every other bell and whistle they could think of. FFS, you could build a new stadium for £220m, and get some change.

I'm of the opinion that we could do a lot of good work with half the amount Elstone quotes. I just do not trust the club on anything to do with this subject.

Of course they even 'costed' (again, no breakdown in detail of what they base their figures for individual elements of construction) a rolling refurb of GP at £130M. The Goodison Obstacle Course – News Archive – News – evertonfc.com - The Official Website of Everton Football Club Stating that the cost of a new Bullens Rd stand will be the price they'd have to pay toward the whole of the Kirkby stadium project....and that will get a reduced capacity at GP of 35,000! Dont forget that the quotes are by Savills and KSS - the companies set to gain by a stadium build in Kirkby

December 3rd I believe Mr Elstone, Mr Potts from Savills, and Mr Keirle of KSS give their evidence to the Inquiry - should be an entertaining affair.

 

[kenada_blue]

Just for argument's sake, imagine we could refurbish GP for the same as Kirkby. Which would you go for?

Hypethetically -- Its tricky one I think.

If I had to make the decision with a gun to my head.....refurb Goodison -- but I may have to take a bullet to the knee to make my choice

For all the negativity for Kirkby, there's also positives for the future. But being that both positive and negative arent 100% arcurate (who REALLY knows if we can fill a 50,000 seater or entice a buyer, increase revenue etc at Kirkby?) being their all estimates. Its why there's an argument.

And having a monster stadium (if they build it) right next door by the [Poor language removed] will make our stadium like a championship team.

 

[Nebbiolo]

Hypethetically -- Its tricky one I think.

If I had to make the decision with a gun to my head.....refurb Goodison -- but I may have to take a bullet to the knee to make my choice

For all the negativity for Kirkby, there's also positives for the future. But being that both positive and negative arent 100% arcurate (who REALLY knows if we can fill a 50,000 seater or entice a buyer, increase revenue etc at Kirkby?) being their all estimates. Its why there's an argument.

And having a monster stadium (if they build it) right next door by the [Poor language removed] will make our stadium like a championship team.

Good post, mate. I'm attached to GP in a very spiritual way. Because I only get to see about 3 games a season, going there is this huge buzz and perhaps I get a tad romantic about it (but my heart starts racing, my (few) hairs stand on edge, etc, etc). I'll be gutted if and when it is destroyed.

I still don't want to go to Kirkby, though.

 

[kenada_blue]

Good post, mate. I'm attached to GP in a very spiritual way. Because I only get to see about 3 games a season, going there is this huge buzz and perhaps I get a tad romantic about it (but my heart starts racing, my (few) hairs stand on edge, etc, etc). I'll be gutted if and when it is destroyed.

I still don't want to go to Kirkby, though.

I agree totally, and its the same for me.

But I'm also in the same boat of I'll go where ever we go.

I just hope whatever happens with the Kirkby thing or where ever we move to etc that if it gets built and the team rolls out on the 1st game of the season in the new stadium, that the fans will put their differences aside and try and create the atmosphere that was done at Goodison Park and support the team at their new home.

But....we'll see.