2023/24 Sean Dyche

[Melchizedek]

I would say that Pickford, Tarkowski, Branthwaite , Mykolenko have all done consistently well.
I think McNeill , Garner , Onana in particular all were doing very well earlier in the season but all three are involved every week without a rest and at the moment those three but in particular Garner and McNeill look jaded.
I think Doucoure has not had a bad season but I think we all know his limitations.

I think the point I am making is that most of the players are doing as well as we could expect from them under any manager.
We know that we are suffering from lack of investment in playing staff over probably three to four years.We have brought in a lot of money from the sale of players but we all know unfortunately where that money has gone.

I think we realistically have a squad of maybe fifteen players that we can use, we know that most other premiership clubs have probably five or six extra in their squads.

We are carrying very expensive players like Michael Keane, Andre Gomes, Dele who are contributing nothing to our season but crippling our payroll, I feel there may be more but can't recall anyone else just now.

In other words, we are screwed, it isn't the fault of management ( although they certainly can't be given a free pass either).
The club is in a mess from top to bottom and there is no magic bullet to solve it.
I don't honestly see another manager who will come in and make us better with the players we have.... unfortunately.

I don't wholly disagree that the squad isn't great, but I do think we could expect better results than no wins since December. In the same way its not wholly on the manager, it's also not solely the fault of the squad. I am one who thinks his tactics are set up not too lose rather than try to win.

 

[DualityNSNO]

It’s interesting that you mention politics because when you lads can’t argue very simple points, you resort to rethoirc, then move on to ask a different question. There is a Twitter account somewhere, were all these neg stats are being pulled because it sure as hell ain’t coming from watching and being an astute judge of football!

A classic line in negoation is when you can’t argue subject matter is to make it binary - question as opposed to open, yes/no answers, It works quite successfully on stuff like Brexit and Trump as it’s simple for the masses, Do you want to make Ameica great again?

Very simply because that is the base he’s built from and also a competitive measure to see if there has been incremental improvement. I mean it’s pretty stupid not to compare really.

No, I meant like a politician, just dancing around the question and never answering it, which is why you feel like we move on - you've barely answered one, including the one I asked in the quote you're making, but you've written a three paragraph reply to a "yes/no" without replying in any way

Thanks for proving my point really.

He's built base of failure and judging by long winded word soup replies you're happy with it - this is how it comes out as.

 

[Gilbert..]

That doesn’t invalidate my point that Dyche has to make this present squad work.

There’s literally no other choice.

Of course. But it isnt just that black and white is it. Evertons goal difference has halved from the past two seasons.
If the strikers had turned up just a fraction of what they have the team would be sitting quite comfortable now. How the hell none of them could hit the target against united still beggars belief.
Dyche takes responsibility. But bloody hell so do the players missing chance after chance.

 

[allen]

Of course. But it isnt just that black and white is it. Evertons goal difference has halved from the past two seasons.
If the strikers had turned up just a fraction of what they have the team would be sitting quite comfortable now. How the hell none of them could hit the target against united still beggars belief.
Dyche takes responsibility. But bloody hell so do the players missing chance after chance.

I’m not interested in making excuses for him, or even looking to blame him.

I’m recognising the immediacy of the situation.

I want him to recognise that this goal drought is his responsibility to solve with the resources available to him, and I want him to publicly state he’s trying to solve it by adjusting his approach.

Everything he’s said so far suggests that he’s going to keep going in the same way with the expectation that things will turn around on their own.

He needs to stand up, say this is on him, then proactively try and change the record.

 

[Neiler]

No, I meant like a politician, just dancing around the question and never answering it, which is why you feel like we move on - you've barely answered one, including the one I asked in the quote you're making, but you've written a three paragraph reply to a "yes/no" without replying in any way

Thanks for proving my point really.

He's built base of failure and judging by long winded word soup replies you're happy with it - this is how it comes out as.

You didn’t understand my point mate, when you can’t make points you simplify it with closed questions - it’s to cultivate popular opinion by simplifying it. It goes on a lot in this thread. Ignore points deductions, selling our best players, no administration, awful squad, - do you think he’s doing a bad job by getting beaten by Spurs, City or Utd - yes or no! You know my answer.

I haven’t read one compelling argument beyond rehotric and ripped Twitter stats to be honest. Nothing that cant be easily swept aside with ease. If it meant Everton would do better, I’d be very open minded. But no one’s even swayed me a degree. In fact I think most of the anti stuff here is bonkers.

But I don’t blame you, the neg side was like a ghost town until recently, so it’s the sensible thing to do, to try and cultivate, we know the story though, it changes again - because he’s good - same lads go missing and your admirably back in a talking shop, population you again! Though fair play, I admire the bottle as I’ve said.

So in short your point is to ignore the incremental improvement on out put from last season, I refer to the above, QED.

 

[mistuhp]

Take away pens and DCL has scored about 3 open play goals since fans returned to football stadiums. A nonsense argument that doesn’t go on his favour at all.

The Covid season has very much proven to be the outlier in DCL’s career. He’s now 27, pretty much the same age as those other strikers, and his career record is 1 in 4. He’s missed a hatful of great chances this season so the “it’s the style of play’s fault” thing holds no water whatsoever.

It's so weird to me that people don't see this. Here are the actual numbers in the league seasons since fans returned to stadia:

Season	Minutes Played	Total Goals	Penalty Goals	Non-Penalty Goals	Minutes per Goal	Minutes per non-Penalty Goal
2021-22	1286	5	2	3	257	429
2022-23	1176	2	1	1	588	1176
2023-24	1595	3	0	3	532	532
Total	4057	10	3	7	406	580

These incredibly dire numbers are from whoscored, by the way. As a point of comparison, in total Oumar Niasse played 1303 league minutes for Everton, scoring 8 goals, none from penalties, giving him a goal every 163 minutes. (Omar's assist and key passes numbers are all better in this regard, too). Cenk Tosun, whose assist and key pass numbers are all also superior to Dom's, played a total of 2381 league minutes for Everton, scoring 9 goals, none from penalties, meaning a goal every 265 minutes.
(And yes, penalties all count and all that, but they are team goals and not an individual accomplishment, and unless the penalty taker is over 90 percent or under 70 percent on scoring them, you'd expect any professional to be able to score those goals all the same.)

The sad part is that even if you add in the prior two seasons where he got to double digits and cut off everything before that, Dom is now at 9594 minutes played and 39 goals scored, which is 246 minutes per goal, and taking the penalties out, we're now at 266.5 minutes per goal. And if you only count those two seasons (when he didn't take penalties), Dom scored 29 goals in 5537 minutes, or a goal every 191 minutes (but at the same time created practically nothing for others, worse than any other stretch in his career in this regard).

So basically both Oumar Niasse and Cenk Tosun both scored and created chances more frequently than Dom does, even if you include Dom playing under Carlo, and Oumar scored more frequently over the course of his Everton career than Dom scored during his best two seasons. This is not a good record for a striker, at all.

 

[bicycleheader]

I'm finding it hilarious how politically you answer any simple question with a load of waffle

So do you blame him for how poor we are? Yes/no.

And why are we using arguably the worst season in our recent history (which he himself was also a part of, just in case people have forgotten for some reason) as a yardstick for doing well?

I think it's normal that many think so little of our squad right now that their only expectations in this current season is that we be a bit better than previous one and hopefully not be bang in the middle of the scrap

What's the point in holding them to the yardstick of the 80s for example when we all know we are utter crap? Last season makes more sense to me

 

[roy vernon]

We’ve won as many games this season as we did in the whole of last season, with 10 games to go and not having won in beards.

That's the worrying thing though, our form has fallen off a cliff and we are in a three months long run of relegation form. It would be a much more positive situation if we had had an horrendous start to then season and were now picking up points. Make no mistake, Dyche is doing anything but a good job, his limited system has been sussed and he is showing no signs that he has any idea what to do to correct it.

 

[roy vernon]

If he posts a points tally which is a reasonable improvement on last season, I wouldn't care particularly, because it will mean other results have balanced it out.

What I'm perfectly happy to admit though is that as this run of form continues, the chances of Dyche returning an acceptable points total become less and less and even now are looking on the slim side.

Exactly

 

[Gilbert..]

I’m not interested in making excuses for him, or even looking to blame him.

I’m recognising the immediacy of the situation.

I want him to recognise that this goal drought is his responsibility to solve with the resources available to him, and I want him to publicly state he’s trying to solve it by adjusting his approach.

Everything he’s said so far suggests that he’s going to keep going in the same way with the expectation that things will turn around on their own.

He needs to stand up, say this is on him, then proactively try and change the record.

i think he more or less does say it. 23 chances against united and they hit the target 6 times. That to me says he set them up to create chances. And they couldnt hit a barn door.
Im not dyches biggest fan but im just not having it. the players need to bury more of the chances they are quite clearly getting.

 

[Neiler]

That's the worrying thing though, our form has fallen off a cliff and we are in a three months long run of relegation form. It would be a much more positive situation if we had had an horrendous start to then season and were now picking up points. Make no mistake, Dyche is doing anything but a good job, his limited system has been sussed and he is showing no signs that he has any idea what to do to correct it.

So past performance is an indication of future success mate. If he kept us up last season, with a worse squad, had us in form before a tough block of games, has clocked 31 points this season as manager, do we not think he has collateral for an expectation with a nice run coming to achieve what we need….

As my good friend @DualityNSNO would often ask my opinion on, it’s a Yes from me.

 

[toffeeblue9]

Yeah we've only given him about 5 new players to use so naturally we shouldn't expect wins.

He's not good enough for Everton. We should not play for damage mitigation and draws at home. We shouldn't accept mediocrity (or below) with open hands like this, and if we get a new owner he should go. Great that he got us this mythical stability, but he'll be the prolonged death of the club, he's not a "saviour" of any kind.

"Who will replace him" question is what I suppose will follow - we have a whole scouting department and DoF, they should look at manager prospects and actually do their job for a change. If you or anyone else thinks "there's no one else who can do his job" I honestly am lost for words.

The thing I don't like mate is that it's all very woolly.

All I can really make out is "should do better".

Be specific. Put a number on it. How many points better than last season should he do? I don't particularly disagree with anything you've said, but where it falls down is the bits that are just subjective:

"He's too stubborn"
"His subs are terrible"
"He sets us up terribly"

Etc etc

I'm not interested in any of that, all I care about is that he gets enough points that he could be considered do have done a reasonable job. If he can't, he goes. So with that in mind, what should he deliver?

 

[Neiler]

The thing I don't like mate is that it's all very woolly.

All I can really make out is "should do better".

Be specific. Put a number on it. How many points better than last season should he do? I don't particularly disagree with anything you've said, but where it falls down is the bits that are just subjective:

"He's too stubborn"
"His subs are terrible"
"He sets us up terribly"

Etc etc

I'm not interested in any of that, all I care about is that he gets enough points that he could be considered do have done a reasonable job. If he can't, he goes. So with that in mind, what should he deliver?

I hate when people don’t give you a direct answer to your question!

 

[allen]

i think he more or less does say it. 23 chances against united and they hit the target 6 times. That to me says he set them up to create chances. And they couldnt hit a barn door.
Im not dyches biggest fan but im just not having it. the players need to bury more of the chances they are quite clearly getting.

All he does is talk about the number of chances.

That’s tantamount to saying “well I’m doing everything right.”

He was asked if he thought employing a striking coach was a good idea and he brushed it off - saying they had all sorts of coaching ability already.

He shows no sign of understanding this is his responsibility to fix.

He needs to get the strikers scoring again. It’s his job to do whatever it takes - to change their mindset, to change up shooting practice - whatever it is. He’s the head coach and he needs to coach these strikers differently.

It’s on him.

 

[DualityNSNO]

The thing I don't like mate is that it's all very woolly.

All I can really make out is "should do better".

Be specific. Put a number on it. How many points better than last season should he do? I don't particularly disagree with anything you've said, but where it falls down is the bits that are just subjective:

"He's too stubborn"
"His subs are terrible"
"He sets us up terribly"

Etc etc

I'm not interested in any of that, all I care about is that he gets enough points that he could be considered do have done a reasonable job. If he can't, he goes. So with that in mind, what should he deliver?

They're not subjective - all 3 of those things are literal facts.

We should have easily had points from at least 4 games more than we have, considering the situations - Luton at home should've been 3 points, we lost comfortably.
Villa both home and away - lucky to draw one of those games but I'll concede they're having a great season.
Fulham both home (L) and away (D).
Brighton at home we lead but had no idea how to actually go ahead and win a game so an early goal was the worst that could happen; late draw.
Brighton away - leading against the run of play which we had no right to do, only to once again collapse at the end in the 98th or something minute.
Wolves at home we experimented for some reason, played a striker outwide for a bit, a winger up front for 90 min, you know, as you do.
Wolves away we absolutely switched off and got beaten by 2 corners.

So even if you only count Brighton away, Luton home and Wolves (at least 1 draw, realistically we could've won or at least tried to win 1 of those games) - we're easily 7 points better.

He should deliver 3+ wins, because he put us in this position to have to even need to do that.

He should go either way if we want any bright future.