RS outnumber us 2:1 in Liverpool, has it always been this way?

[DixieScoresAgain]

Reading up more about Catterick (couple of news articles from The Guardian and The Echo, plus a book by Sawyer), I feel that is definitely where the divergence between the status of the two clubs begins.

While Shankly was telling the world he was building a “bastion of invincibility”, Catterick was shutting the doors of the club to the outside world. The RS were the first team on Match of the Day (vs Arsenal), while Catterick was against the club being shown on tv.

The 60s was such a pivotal moment in pop culture, of which sport is a big player. United and the RS really took off in that period (Shankly as mentioned was the trigger for the RS, while United’s was the story of the Busby babes and the Munich crash, followed by the Busby leading a team (including first celebrity footballer George Best) to the EC a decade after the disaster). Whether it’s tag lines such as This is Anfield, or Theatre of Dreams, the mystique/stature/identity of both clubs in the media has remained since then.

There’s also another factor, legacy. From what I’ve read thus far Catterick is seen as a ‘chequebook’ manager, able to bring in top players under Moores. When he left, that was it, there was nothing for his successor to pick up. Of course that his successor was the god awful Billy Bingham didn’t help. With Shankly it’s the opposite, the boot room. A management structure he had set in place that was able to continue from where he left off, similar training methods and playing style, and he also left his successor a load of top young talent (Keegan, Toshack, Clemence, Heighway, Hughes, Thompson etc.).

It’s as though Catterick’s name is stuck in the period of time in which he worked, a relic, unlike the likes of Shankly, Busby, Stein who just go on. The manager being the face of the club, Catterick being introverted made the club introverted, Shankly being an extrovert made the RS extroverted. You can see this today with the difference in appearance of banners, flags etc. Colour is also one of the thing that attracts fans.

On a side note to this, the way Catterick treated Alex Young was a disgrace. Told by Catterick he would receive 1k when he left the club, then when he went to get the money Catterick tells him you should have got it down in writing. Young walked out and never spoke to him again, surprised he didn’t chin him.

Informative post.

 

[DixieScoresAgain]

I honestly couldn't care less - I've said for a while their success is largely down to appointing a world class manager combined with a massive stroke of luck in sound recruitment over a short space of time.

Henry has neither the funds nor the desire to bankroll LFC to dominate English football like Man City have hes in it for profit as are all Yank owners.

I've maintained for a while so long as Usmanov lives a long life and is here to bankroll us year on year - in 10 years time we'll be equal if not the more successful side especially if they replace Klopp with a dud you can quote me on that.

If CAS win, owners bankrolling clubs in top divisions is over for clubs with small turnovers who want to crash dining at the top table and have aspirations to play in the CL, clubs have to be funded from turnover, Match day, TV, Commercial revenues and not have huge losses within a 3 year window. Clubs like United, Leicester, RS, Spurs and Arsenal are self reliant and spend within their means, you can see that on their turnover results.

In the PL the only clubs reliant on bankrolling from owners is City as we see who have failed FFP Twice and could for a 3rd time as UEFA have another ongoing investigation now from 2016, so City could be going to CAS twice. The other club is Chelsea, latest turnover results showed 197 million losses and Abramovich had to stump up the money last year for Pulisic, Kovacic and Kepa as they had no CL football they had to go cap in hand to their owner once again who they owe 1.3 billion to, and you could also put us in that group right now how we are reliant heavily on Moshiri, with him covering our big losses the last few seasons.

 

[Deckard2049]

its more than likely 3-1 or more these days sadly.

What i would say is most everton fans are proper supporters who go either all the time or at least a few a season, rather than the tellyclapping reds who watch something else rather than the big games but make sure theyre loud and proud when its against united or a finale etc.

as Labone said....

The next generation is the important one. A good friend of mine is a newly qualified teacher. He’s been on placement in a couple of schools around the city and from his observations more youngsters are joining the dark side of the force. Obviously this is anecdotal evidence from only a couple of places but it could be indicative of a general pattern.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

If CAS win, owners bankrolling clubs in top divisions is over for clubs with small turnovers who want to crash dining at the top table and have aspirations to play in the CL, clubs have to be funded from turnover, Match day, TV, Commercial revenues and not have huge losses within a 3 year window. Clubs like United, Leicester, RS, Spurs and Arsenal are self reliant and spend within their means, you can see that on their turnover results.

In the PL the only clubs reliant on bankrolling from owners is City as we see who have failed FFP Twice and could for a 3rd time as UEFA have another ongoing investigation now from 2016, so City could be going to CAS twice. The other club is Chelsea, latest turnover results showed 197 million losses and Abramovich had to stump up the money last year for Pulisic, Kovacic and Kepa as they had no CL football they had to go cap in hand to their owner once again who they owe 1.3 billion to, and you could also put us in that group right now how we are reliant heavily on Moshiri, with him covering our big losses the last few seasons.

Usmanov can bankroll us all he wants as he has no connection to Everton FC whatsoever

 

[Yarrgh]

Reading up more about Catterick (couple of news articles from The Guardian and The Echo, plus a book by Sawyer), I feel that is definitely where the divergence between the status of the two clubs begins.

While Shankly was telling the world he was building a “bastion of invincibility”, Catterick was shutting the doors of the club to the outside world. The RS were the first team on Match of the Day (vs Arsenal), while Catterick was against the club being shown on tv.

The 60s was such a pivotal moment in pop culture, of which sport is a big player. United and the RS really took off in that period (Shankly as mentioned was the trigger for the RS, while United’s was the story of the Busby babes and the Munich crash, followed by the Busby leading a team (including first celebrity footballer George Best) to the EC a decade after the disaster). Whether it’s tag lines such as This is Anfield, or Theatre of Dreams, the mystique/stature/identity of both clubs in the media has remained since then.

There’s also another factor, legacy. From what I’ve read thus far Catterick is seen as a ‘chequebook’ manager, able to bring in top players under Moores. When he left, that was it, there was nothing for his successor to pick up. Of course that his successor was the god awful Billy Bingham didn’t help. With Shankly it’s the opposite, the boot room. A management structure he had set in place that was able to continue from where he left off, similar training methods and playing style, and he also left his successor a load of top young talent (Keegan, Toshack, Clemence, Heighway, Hughes, Thompson etc.).

It’s as though Catterick’s name is stuck in the period of time in which he worked, a relic, unlike the likes of Shankly, Busby, Stein who just go on. The manager being the face of the club, Catterick being introverted made the club introverted, Shankly being an extrovert made the RS extroverted. You can see this today with the difference in appearance of banners, flags etc. Colour is also one of the thing that attracts fans.

On a side note to this, the way Catterick treated Alex Young was a disgrace. Told by Catterick he would receive 1k when he left the club, then when he went to get the money Catterick tells him you should have got it down in writing. Young walked out and never spoke to him again, surprised he didn’t chin him.

You should do unofficial tours of Klanfield with that spiel, you'd have the rs eating out of your hands.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

 

[gonetomorrow]

They've got more fans in SE Asia. I'll give them that.

 

[GwladysPhil]

Went into town for lunch and the number of scarf wearing or shirts over hoodies was crazy.

Their tourist following is unreal and well marketed which is getting closer and closer to pushing out the local support more everyday. But that's modern football.

 

[toffeejack]

You can buy a lot more RS crap in the charity shops, this is why there are more. A lot of kids get forced to wear cheap knock off RS gear from second hand shops. They have a massive following of people who know nothing about football and nothing about their team. They feel like wearing the tops when they're successful to start a conversation in the pub... Which lasts about 2 minutes. When Klopp leaves and they go back to average you'll see the amount of tops decrease.

There's probably a lot of blues a bit unarsed about wearing tops atm because of the sheer embarrassment provided by the players in the last couple of years, doesn't mean we'll totally stop caring like their lot do.

 

[GwladysPhil]

You can buy a lot more RS crap in the charity shops, this is why there are more. A lot of kids get forced to wear cheap knock off RS gear from second hand shops. They have a massive following of people who know nothing about football and nothing about their team. They feel like wearing the tops when they're successful to start a conversation in the pub... Which lasts about 2 minutes. When Klopp leaves and they go back to average you'll see the amount of tops decrease.

There's probably a lot of blues a bit unarsed about wearing tops atm because of the sheer embarrassment provided by the players in the last couple of years, doesn't mean we'll totally stop caring like their lot do.

Look at the photos from their parade last year. Horrible amount of tacky old gear / jarg stuff.

 

[barneygumble]

I just think Liverpool are a bigger club and with it, you see a lot more tourists around the City.

I work in town, and actually get it. I follow a few European Teams, and was in Berlin all weekend for the Koln match, and wore my Koln gear all weekend, then thought "hang on, don't we give the Kopite's stick for this?". I guess for a tourist, you want to be recognised for following THAT team, as you mightn't go every single week like you or I do.

They have a stupid amount of tourism for each home game, so no surprise to see Red badges everywhere. Oh, and they're walking the league, those fair weather fans are always going to be on show.

There are weird Cultish fans who genuinely will do weird things like participate in Everton questionnaires to try and skew results.

Also, the arm chair fans are the worst fans. Can't hold a proper conversation. Match going reds i know, are actually sound, and knowledgeable.

 

[MarkK1988]

friend of mine is a newly qualified teacher. He’s been on placement in a couple of schools around the city and from his observations more youngsters are joining the dark side of the force. Obviously this is anecdotal evidence from only a couple of places but it could be indicative of a general pattern.

forcing my 18 month old to be an everton fan, got a ground to fill!

 

[trueblue84]

Driving back into the city tonight, there is no way Liverpool fans outnumber us in the city. The traffic was horrendous from Warrington. Gang of day tripping biffs. They aren't even going to the game. They just go to tug each other off in a boozer in town were they all convince each other they're the best fans in the world.

The LA Lakers of football.

 

[Diogenes the Cynic]

The next generation is the important one. A good friend of mine is a newly qualified teacher. He’s been on placement in a couple of schools around the city and from his observations more youngsters are joining the dark side of the force. Obviously this is anecdotal evidence from only a couple of places but it could be indicative of a general pattern.